One of the things that people used to ask me all the time about my “search” for a wife was something to the effect of, “Have you tried at Church? I mean there are all sorts of women there. Are you asking them out?”
What makes this an even better question in my case is that throughout my 30’s I attended a church of the hot chick. In other words I attended a church in which there were lots of single people, many of whom were attractive. In fact many people go there partly because of this. I mean what better place to meet someone than a 2000 person church where singles are actually welcomed right? Well sort of.
Here’s the thing about “Christian” dating – it’s never simple. It’s a huge disadvantage really.
For starters, it can be hard to figure out the approach etiquette at church. I mean the “talk to them in the lobby” thing has some value, but our lobby was small and the window to approach was short. But that is nothing compared to the mind games you have to play.
In the church as a guy, if you never approach anyone then you are obviously passive, and not a real Christian leader. But if you approach too many people you are “that guy”. And here’s the best part about that. There are two “that guys”. The one who approaches and gets shot down by everyone and the one who is successful in the approach but then decides he doesn’t want a second date (or third, or fourth, or doesn’t want to marry that girl). In a hurry you become either the creeper or the player. Welcome to dating in the church as a guy.
To top it off, you get to be called out by the pastor. “Men just need to man up and initiate.” As someone in a class I was teaching a couple of weeks ago said, “You need to ‘man up’. But only once.” Truth!
Here’s the reality. In our church culture, the church can be one of the least safe places to ask someone out.
Think about it. If I go to a bar, for example, I approach a girl, she says no, I move on. There’s a good chance she won’t be there in a week. Or I just go to a different bar if I want. Grocery store, book store, mall, your waitress, and certainly online – all way safer. Less blowback and less expectations. Heck the only thing more dangerous than church might be work. . . maybe.
There a lot of reasons for this. I won’t even try to cover them all, but here are a few (I’ll have more to say about some of these later).
It starts with the general idea in evangelical culture that women are basically innocent and men are basically lustful or immature. You don’t hear many sermons about it being time to woman up. There is not space in this post to get into this but think about it for any length of time and you see it.
In church the expectation is marriage. This isn’t all bad. It should be the ultimate goal of dating. But it shouldn’t be the goal of the first date. If a guy approaches a woman, she shouldn’t have to answer if she wants to marry him, just if she wants coffee. At the same time, for the love of all things, a few dates does not a marriage make. No other context creates this type of pressure.
If it goes bad, you still have to go to church there. In other words, I like my church. If I ask someone out, she’ll still be there next week. What if she says no? What if she says yes? What if we kiss and then break up? What if I then ask someone else out? No matter what happens this is both people’s place of worship.
It only takes one scorn woman to mess with your reputation. Choose wisely.
I know this much – I always hesitated to ask out anyone from church.
This needs to change. Here are a few quick thoughts on how.
First off we need to get in our heads that both men and women are good and bad. Men need more than the three categories of creeper, player, and perfect.
Second men and women need to show each other this grace thing we all talk so much about. I remember once I asked out this woman from church. She said yes, and then changed her mind to no. I was frustrated and we had a bit of a rough exchange. I then realized she was into someone else. I walked up to her the next Sunday and simply said, “Hey, are we good?” She said yes and you know what we were. Revolutionary I know.
Third and maybe most important. If the leaders of a church are going to tell men that they need to “man up”, then they better dang well have their back when they do. The male leadership of the church need to be able to stand up to women, not just stand up for them. I’ve been blessed to have seen this done well at my church several times. It’s huge. There’s a time to call out both the creeper and the player, but there is also time to stand up for the guy and tell the woman to let it go.
What about you? What would make the church a safer place to pursue women? What is your church’s culture of dating? Does it make you want to pursue or scare you off? How would you change it?
More Than Don't Have Sex 
Instead of saying man up, can we say Jesus up. I don’t know what someone else’s version of a man is. I only have my version. In our brokenness I don’t think we should look to an unclear undefined role. Jesus is the ultimate lover, though he never dated he still loved. Just a personal preference. Ty for your blog. I always enjoy it.
Oh yeah. The whole man up thing is way overused to begin with. What does it mean? Exactly. Haha. Thanks Dustin
My church is like this. If you ask out a woman in the church for coffee or you ask her to join you in the prayer group to take in the Bible lessons and she says no, followed by feeling awkward afterwards when your intentions were innocent, not only do all of that woman’s church friends know about it – most if not the ALL of the church will eventually find out about this. It’s in the eyes of the attendees – especially if you notice a pattern with them towards you. And if the woman you approached avoids you afterwards like “the plague”, guess what – you are now labeled as a “creeper” when you know you’re not. Does the pastor address this kind of juvenile behavior by women over the pulpit to grow up? Nope. Not mine. Never heard him address it when I was at his sermons – even though I didn’t attend all Sundays. So I don’t know if he addressed it while I was absent. Only God knows.
So as for me, I have a lot of trouble attending my church if every Sunday morning I come in there, I have to put up with “strange looks” by people who look at me as “the guy who ‘put the moves’ on Nancy” for example. It’s like at one time or another some people will see me come in through the church doors and motion to whisper to one another where it’s like they’re almost saying, “Psssst!!! It’s HIM…..!!!”, and then they’ll glare at me. I’m supposed to “put up” with that?? I challenge them to say what they’re saying to my face. No huh? Thought not. Cowards. Seriously. Cowards. Leave the gossip for worldly businesses and institutions – leave it OUT of the house of GOD. Gossip mongers are like hornets that set up shop. They become a menace and need to be eradicated from the church back out into the wilderness of the World, where they can choose to change or choose to remain poisonous. Their choice – but make that choice OUTSIDE of the church, especially if while INSIDE of the church such people make no effort to change for the better because they ABUSE grace.
Word of advice: Ask only 2 or 3 different women, at the most, for coffee or friendship and there’s a very high probability that you WILL be labeled as a tongue swaggering Tasmanian Devil. Not kidding. And even if you’re NOT, too bad so sad. You now ARE a Tasmanian Devil. And that’s the end of it – that’s that. Not for me. I have a bunch of choice words for people like this – believe me. I have no problem casting people like this to Hell because the Bible basically says that people like that, if they don’t smarten up, will go there. So 2 women, one would think, is the limit to ask out for coffee or to get better acquainted with as friends – but 3 women IS stretching it. So choose your female associates very carefully and make sure to look really hard.
Me? Choosing to stay single now anyway. That one woman was who I ever really wanted in that church – whether it be for dating or just as a friend. She wanted neither. Didn’t matter if she didn’t really know me except in passing and it she didn’t want to know me at all for anything but. She just wanted to stick with her mis-labels of me. Her choice but I am very disappointed in her. I thought she was better than this. I don’t hate her, absolutely not. I’m just shaking my head over her reaction. It was premature and simply ignorant. To each their own though. And as for the other women in that church? No thanks. Pass. They are nothing to look at, especially on the outside. So as I attend, which is minimally now as I take in their live sermons via the Internet, therefore I choose nobody. Besides, at least by watching the live sermon on my phone it’s just me in my car listening to it – with nobody around me to glare and whisper to each other, “Psssst!!!!! It’s HIM…..!!! It’s El Creepo……!!!”
Even if I were to attend another church? Nope, sorry, no more of this. Enjoying the single life as it gives me way more space and flexibility. At least I dated in the past, whether I was out in the World or back at the church, at least I was in the dating scene. I was no “Tasmanian Devil” who chased women with a long tongue hanging and spinning around from place to place, but still at least I did the dating. I chose to stay single for years in the past too between the dating scene. Felt more free as a bird, especially when I’m praying alone. Even the Apostle Paul preferred people to stay single – less worry and more flexibility to God without a spouse getting in the way.
Furthermore, the chief reason for not going really to that church anymore is because I attended for years and the pastor, as far as I could tell, never addressed gossip or wrongful labeling as an issue that will not be tolerated in his church and which needs to stop. So as long as he doesn’t address the problem over the pulpit, people’s inaction of making things right will continue being a problem. Ergo, don’t waste my time then if you aren’t going to DO anything about it, Pastor. Not sure if he talked about it when I was absent. So don’t quote me on that.
I don’t know about others, but I do not want to be part and parcel to any church that allows the acts of stupid mis labeling and rampant gossip to move around the church environment like air born parasites without any fear of discipline. It’s disgusting behavior to me. It’s an uphill battle. To people I would simply say, “Don’t blame “me” for walking out – blame “them” for it.” And IF a pastors argument is “We don’t discipline people here.”, and to boot he is defensive about it, well to that I would say two things, (1) “You’re in the wrong business, pastor.” & (2) “A church without discipline is not a church – it’s a social club.” And with that being said, there are plenty of places like that in the World if that’s the case – you don’t need a church to reflect that aspect of the World. Sorry.
Now, IF people want to still attend their churches where they get mis labeled as “players” and “creepers”, that of course is their choice. If they still feel a pull from God to go to such places, go for it. Knock yourself out. After all, every church has gossip hounds and mis-labelers. HOWEVER, such people need to be called out from over the pulpit so they are given a choice – “Repent, or get out.”
To me, attending any church where you get tagged as something you’re not and unfairly rubber stamped as a stain, is a waste of my time. To me, there’s no excuse for it in a church of all places. I mean, we Christians are supposed to know better, so come on. Attending a church where you are stamped as this or stamped as that, when you are neither, is an uphill battle. Not only that. It’s a very slippery slope – a slope with vipers around almost every rock that strike at your ankles. Personally I have no tolerance of such rogue actions by people. Their ears would bleed if I found out exactly what was said and then I would probably be asked to leave anyway, while the perpetrators would remain in the church. And IF something like that DID happen, whether it be in my church or any other church, that to me borders on the line of being a den of iniquity.
God bless and be well, people.
Not in my church. Unless I’m wrong, it looks to me as though the pastor doesn’t want to deal with any drama over the pulpit. His sermons are always peaches & creme with smiles.
Agreed, Todd. Absolutely right. The problem is, when men leave for the reasons I stated, the church will simply blame the men who left rather than fix the repeated problems that made them leave in the first place. Doing this is easier than actually spending the time and the effort to dig in and rework the soil in the church to rid its spiritual garden of any weeds (tares) that act as potential or successful stumbling blocks to the wheat.
I mean, honestly. How low can someone go than to, by their actions, demonstrate that they think of a man as a “creep” just because he expressed an interest in her? That’s nighty low. Now I should point out that she never verbally “said” I was a creep. Her actions towards me did. Yet to each her own. I pray that God work on her heart and mine too, as well as anyone else who either mis-labeled others or those who were mis-labeled. We all need prayer. God knows all of our hearts.
Since my church is the antithesis of your “church of the hot chick,” it’s hard for me to relate. I tried various churches and came back to my current church because of the message taught. So I guess my first question is: do I have to settle for a church that doesn’t do a good job teaching the Bible to find other singles? I’ve found that the larger churches tend to do a poorer job at preaching God’s Word. They tell great stories, but that’s it.
Then there are the women who week after week attend alone (or with the kids). There’s never another guy around except that sometimes she wears a ring and sometimes not. I’ve known married women who don’t wear a wedding ring. Talk about dangerous! Who wants to be known as the guy who hits on married women?
Your third point hit the mark well. Ladies need to realize this and be willing to also be a positive influence on their single female counterparts.
I’ve been thinking on this post since you made in Justin, and I’ve got a few thoughts but a few questions too!
You present a very important viewpoint on church dating which is that there is a very fine line of middle ground when asking someone out without going to either extreme and being known as “that guy”. Likewise, women definitely need to be honest and straight forward with the subtle & indirect hints they give. If a lady quietly indicates to a guy she is available to be pursued, then by goodness she had better not turn down the guy when he actually initiates! Short of a biblical reason to decline him that is.
First off, I’ve never been the guy who walks up to a lady I’ve never met before, strike up a conversation with the goal of getting her number to ask her out by the end of the day. I’ve either been too shy or felt that is too forward, too fast. Maybe this line of thinking is wrong, but I’ve always approached this situation by considering first just trying to getting introduced to a lady.
The first exchange may be brief though not actually produce results. But it’d show her I’m confident, kind, and just normal. As you know, there is only one time to make a first impression! If I felt the first exchange was good, I’d want to make it a point to intentionally cross paths with her again the following week. Strike up a subsequent exchange with intent that it’s a bit longer and maybe a bit more personal. If that goes well maybe after the 3rd or 4th time if she seems welcoming to chatting again, then I’d want to ask her out for coffee or if I could assist her in some form of ministry in the church.
Am I wrong in thinking along those lines? Focus on spending a bit more time showing interest in the lady. Making an effort to intentionally cross paths with her to develop a friendship footing before asking such a lady out on a date? Like you said, in church if a couple breaks up they still have to find a way to gracefully worship together and amongst other believers without awkwardness of a unsuccessful relationship.
One thing you didn’t really mention in depth is that the more the interaction between two people progresses from early steps of getting to know each other up to actual dating to marry, heart strings grow in rapid succession. So that with each new heart string formed, means more pain and possible awkwardness in the event of a breakup. Are both people ready to form those heart strings and risk that turning into heartache?
Also, what about older believers in the church acting as intermediaries for a man and woman to at least get introduced? Would that provide a bit of accountability for both individuals to not make un Christ like behaviors if a relationship doesn’t work out?
I can honestly say you are spot on regarding the awkwardness that exists between individuals in the same church after a relationship ends. Years ago I moved halfway across the country to pursue a relationship towards marriage. After having attended the same church of ~1500 people, she ended the relationship. This made it very awkward to sit near, be near, or park in the same area as her, her immediate family, and or immediate close friends.
Grace really does need to be given by both individuals in such situations.
Good points and questions, BW, and I hope Justin won’t mind me replying to your comment and saying that from a woman’s perspective, your approach is perfectly fine and respectable/respectful. If you were to walk up to a woman with whom you’ve never spoken before and ask her out, her first thoughts would likely be, “Uh…who the heck is this guy? And WHY is he asking me out?” If a man asked me out without talking to me first, I would be forced to assume that he was only asking me out because he thought I was pretty. After all, what does he know of me other than what I look like? Also, from a woman’s perspective, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking an older person to introduce you to someone of interest. Additionally, having an older couple to mentor the relationship along the way is also nice and communicates to a woman that you value her and your relationship with her. You’ve put a lot of thought into this process – best of luck!
Thanks for your reply Shannon! I find it invaluable to get a woman’s perspective most, if not all the time in this realm of life. Especially on this topic of ‘church dating’. It seems easier when a guy is outside the church and see’s women he might be attracted too, because most if not all of them can be excluded because of not being saved. Inside the church it’s definitely more difficult and they are sisters in Christ that share the same place of worship. So any advice to make that easier is always appreciated! 🙂
Shannon, I appreciate your perspective here. Perhaps you are the type of woman who wants some dialog with a man before he asks you out. I think it is important to point out that not all women are like this.
I think this is why grace is so important and we have to be careful not to assume. You may not like a man immediately asking you out; but, some women love it. If you get asked out in the “direct” manner, don’t assume there is something wrong. A guy may have learned from past experience how effective a direct approach can be! 🙂
You said,
“Likewise, women definitely need to be honest and straight forward with the subtle & indirect hints they give.”
/// end quote ///
I just went through this on another thread on this blog, so I don’t want to get into it too much, here.
But just be aware of the fact that both secular and Christian culture heavily discourage and shame Christian girls and women from being blunt and direct with people, especially with men.
(Christians place ten times more pressure on girls and women to behave in this manner than secular culture does.)
We women are told if we are too direct and blunt, that it is mean spirited and un-feminine. We start getting these messages from the time we are little girls – from our parents, preachers, Christian books we’re exposed to, magazine articles, and even secular content, such as movies, TV shows, etc.
We ladies are taught that being outspoken and direct are qualities only boys and men can and should have
(now that I’m older I realize how wrong that thinking it, but it takes a woman a life time to come to that realization).
Women have other reasons why they drop hints and beat around the bush rather than being blunt with men, but I don’t care to get into all of them here.
I know what you mean. I feel awkward going to the same church where this one woman attends, who wouldn’t even give me a chance as a friend and who mis-labeled me as a “creep” for expressing a friendly interest in her. She avoids me at every turn now. Her relatives look at me funny. One of them shook my hand during the “congregation greeting portion” of the service – where the sibling shook my hand for only half a second (not even gripping it) before yanking it back very quickly. Relax, sibling. I’m not a leper. Her friends, numbers of them, all glare at me and don’t even say hello to me anymore – all because I asked this woman, who is nice to everyone but me – if she would like to be friends and hang out.
Sure, this woman said she wasn’t into dating. So I told her that although I understood, I would still like to be good friends with her because of the woman’s good nature and kindness that was unlike anything I ever seen. In other words I was drawn to her self sacrificing elements, her shy – timid serenity and peaceful stature in the church. She dresses beautifully too – one of the only people left in church who still dresses conservative, while 98% of the other women around her age dress lazy with what looks like rags for wear. They just throw something on and come to church. Sorry people, but this is a church – not a mall. Whatever. Well anyway, apparently that woman I liked is peaceful, kind and sweet to others – just not to me – not after I expressed an interest in her – even if it meant to be as a friend if that’s all she wanted. Apparently not. With her, it’s friendship with women only. To each their own.
I am 45, she is 55. Can’t stand women in and around my change. Never worked, so I stopped expressing any interest in women around my age. Dead ends. But regarding me being 45 and that woman being 55, so what! I dated older women before. So, to me, it feels awkward to go into the same place where a person I truly wanted avoids me like the plague, week after week, and scores of her Associates and relatives look at me as though I’m from Mars. I don’t really attend there anymore. It is becoming too much for me to put up with, week after week after week after week – for months on end. I can feel the odd cold stares. Wow.
This is one reason why men leave the church.
The House of God is for Prayer and Worship…it is not a bar or any other type of pick up place. You are there for the wrong reasons…get your mind off of dating, get it on the Lord, be faithful to Him, and He will set a woman before you where you won’t have to play the guessing game!
Sounds nice! Easy for a woman to say! Not how it works in real life!
Bubba…it does! Get in the Will of God! It is no easier for females than males.
Visit: One Night With the King
http://www.sahiyena.org/#!__one-night
Who are you to determine from one comment whether he is in the will of God or not? Really?!
Reply to Hmmm.
I am a woman and I totally disagree with Ms. Sahiyena.
I don’t think that the only purpose the church was established was for spiritual purposes only. If you look at the NT, Paul used various churches to take up monetary collections to help other churches that were in poverty.
I do think that churches should be willing to help single adults who would like to marry some help in that area, if they want the help. Most churches run around helping married couples by putting on so many ministries and social events for married people, they should be willing to do that sort of thing for single adults.
I agree in part and disagree with the other premise. Yes, God’s house is for prayer and worship. It’s also where believers come together for fellowship (read the early chapters of Acts and Hebrews 10:25.)
There’s a bad premise that goes like this: If I just “trust” in God He’ll give me what I want.
God’s not a cosmic genie! He’s not going to sit there and answer to our every wish while we sit on our proverbial couch and do nothing.
Read the book of Ruth. It’s not merely a love story, but it shows how people did things (mundane and not-so-mundane) while trusting in God.
James calls our faith “dead” without action.
Exactly. I’m not suggesting you stop the girl in the middle of the church service. Yikes. What I mean by church is the church generally. Not so much Sunday. God may well put someone in front of you, but you still have to act.
My dear I am very familiar with the Book of Ruth!
The House of God is still a place of Prayer & Worship! Not a dating place.
No biblical character ever met their spouses inside the Temple of God…God directs them to each other by his Holy Spirit in other places.
I don’t think any of them, particularly Jacob ever thought the way the Lord lead him to Rachel was a bad premise and that God didn’t give him what he wanted!
You are right, God isn’t a cosmic genie, and I perceive that you do not know Him at all if you do not understand that a spouse fits into His Divine Will!
Read Purpose & Destiny
http://www.sahiyena.org/#!__one-night/purpose-&-destiny
Again, you perceive that this person doesn’t know God because he doesn’t believe the way you do about God’s spousal provision.
Show me the scripture where God promises a spouse. Paul didn’t have a spouse.
Again, I need a job. Should I look for a job or just hope that God will bring me one? I should pray, I should count whatever job I end up in as God’s provision for that time, but I’d better send out some resumes.
We know God the Father as much as we know and obey His Word. We can tell where a person is in the Lord by their understanding of the Word of God!
Babes will dwell on the milk and they see only what is directly in front of them. They lack wisdom, discernment and spiritual understanding…this is evident as soon as they open their mouths to speak.
But we all grow at different paces…we grow in accordance with how much of the Word of God we eat on a daily basis. Every person is as close to God right now as they desire to be.
Immaturity is revealed when someone argues a point that isn’t there, it is revealed when we interject our own insecurities into what someone has said or written instead of listening with a spiritual hear or the Spirit of God.
Again, herein is wisdom…you will either listen to the Spirit of God or you will not…when a man/woman seeks a thing from the Lord…seek ye first the Lord then these “things” will be added unto you!
Go to church because you Love God, because you desire Him, because you desire to hear “His” voice, because you want to worship Him; when you put him first above all things…He will guide you by His Holy Spirit.
Otherwise, you can remain as unhappy and unfulfilled and frustrated and unproductive as you have been thus far, because obviously, from all of your testimonies…your way hasn’t worked so far!
So try the way of wisdom, if ye are able.
Your so right. No one here has ever thought that if they seek God first, all the things will be added. Yikes. Give me a break.
Again, there is no where in the Bible that God promises that I will have a spouse. You have no scriptural backing for that idea. All you are doing is spreading the same spiritual platitudes that keep people complacent and mad at God. It’s Oprah theology. Yes you should always seek God first. That is fact. But not so anything is added – you do it whether anything will be added or not – for HIm and Him alone. He is what fulfills us. He is what we seek.
I’m not miserable. I’m not mad or unhappy. Your judgement is false because you start from a seat of judgement instead of understanding. I wasn’t miserable single, and I’m not miserable married. Your way is not working as evidenced by the gigantic leap in unmarried people over the last 40 years.
I have no idea what you said, none of it is in reference to what I just wrote, as previously stated… speaking from a place of anger and insecurity that has nothing to do with what I just said…insecurity and immaturity!
Okay, have a nice day, Thanksgiving, and enjoy your life. 🙂
I’m not angry at all. I do get fired up at spiritual platitudes which is exactly what you are offering.
Here’s the thing. If you wanted to argue that we should seek God and not worry about whether or not we get married, that is a fair argument. But to say that if we seek God we will get married is not.
Secondly, you are making all kinds of personal judgements about me and other posters including our maturity etc, primarily because we don’t agree with your theological take on finding a spouse. No where has anyone judged your spiritual maturity or place with Jesus. They are disagreeing with what you say about how finding a spouse works. You are the one making it personal.
I already enjoy my life a great deal. You also have a great Thanksgiving
“God may well put someone in front of you, but you still have to act.”
Exactly!
Not only that, but men better have the best resume and professional references possible in order to even show up on her radar as a possible candidate.
This, of course, is ignoring the fact that most women in churches now (who act more like HR departments than sisters-in-Christ) are totally unprepared and unqualified to be good wives and mothers.
“get your mind off of dating, get it on the Lord, be faithful to Him, and He will set a woman before you where you won’t have to play the guessing game!”
You, my sister, seem to be over-spiritualizing life in the 21st century.
I think the world is a giant top that has been spinning in place for a long time, and now it’s almost about to topple over. A long time ago, God gave us all free will to choose what we want, and yes, He wants us to choose His will, but we have all been living around the curses of poor-choice free will for so long now, that most Christians are living in sin, and everything about finding a good wife is a horrendous “guessing game.”
Being close to God and living in his will only guarantees that I’m pleasing God by living in his will (ie: obedient to his commands). In no way does it guarantee a loving, respectful, submissive, Christian wife who wants to please God by honoring me as her husband. Those are two totally different things.
By your logic, God wants all people to be well fed, and so living in his will automatically means that we will never go hungry. How well is that logic working for some of the poorer Christians in poor parts of Africa or Afghanistan? Or even poor parts of the US?
This is the problem with Western Theology: it assumes that God will always give you whatever you want if you just pray long and hard enough.
But, God is not our candy dispenser.
Obedience to God is just that – obedience. It is nothing else.
Justin is right!
We can pray all we want, but if we don’t put an amazing resume out into the world, then all those Christian women won’t have the option to exercise all their free will as well – and many already have.
I think the reason all those men in the bible found wives was because society pushed marriage on young, single people as a way of life instead of all the glamorous lies we hear now about being “free” and “independent.” Plus, major cities like Jerusalem only had ~12,000 people total (or roughly 32x the size of my small town high school marching band – less options makes selection easier, especially if your future well-being depended on your absolute need in that society to become married).
We assume that their decision to marry was always God’s best choice for them (ie: God’s will). We never consider that God would bless their marriage selections because God believes in the union and covenant of godly marriages no matter which wives they chose.
We like to ascribe credit to God for everything good that happens, but don’t also acknowledge all the helpful social factors that contribute greatly to good things happening.
Any honest Christian woman will admit that holiness/godliness is down to about #6 on her priority list of desirable traits in a husband, far below all the superficial things like looks, status, popularity, and humor.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that being holy and Godly, and living in his will has absolutely nothing at all to do with finding a wife. Being holy without also being a good-looking, charismatic, top-status man is absolutely useless for finding a wife. Been there and done that. So have many other godly men who followed advice like yours.
Maybe you should teach women to value godliness more, rather than blaming men for “not being godly enough.” Clearly, Christian women have no problem dating non-Christians, so your advice for men to be “in God’s will” is only helpful to find God.
If you want single men and women to become married, then stop spitting out religious sounding platitudes, and become very honest and real about the ways we each (men and women) need to change practically to live biblical 21st century life well (ie: the pastor’s advice to find his wife in 1975 is useless to us now. That was a different world that we can’t even relate to, and following such advice is part of what has caused the issues we have now – well, that and “kissing dating goodbye.”)
It would be refreshing to hear a Pastor admit that they chose their wife because she was “hot” and she chose him because his “Pastor” job title “demonstrated he was a strong leader.” They always skip over the honest details of their time dating to spiritualize how “God led them together through prayer in bible college, so you have to become more godly and pray more.” No, the truth is that her rich parents went into deep debt to send her to an expensive bible college, so that she could find a good-looking young man who was studying to become a pastor, because we all know that pastors are “holier” than boring, sinful, cubicle drones like accountants, and God wants “the best” for her. So she probably put on her cutest skirt and flirted with him, using Jesus as a sales pitch to snag the man who could give her the ideal “Christian” future she wanted.
If Pastors can’t even be honest with themselves, how can they expect any of their experiences to help us now.
Reply to Justin Campbell,
regarding some of your comments to the lady on this thread who is saying church is a place of prayer, not a dating site, etc.
I am pretty much on your side in this debate, but I do want to add – as someone who was a devout Christian for many years, wanted to be married, am still single past age 45 – neither strategy guarantees marriage.
I tried the pray, wait, have faith thing, still single.
I also tried the “try dating web sites and visit local churches to hopefully meet other single adults.”
Trying did not work – stepping out in faith and putting action to faith did not work, either.
I think there is something very, very wrong about all this.
There are a lot of Christian singles who wanted to be married but it did not happen for them – God is not providing for them, regardless if the person is passive (sat around and prayed) or active about trying to get married (tried going to singles functions at churches or tried dating sites).
I think it’s a shame that the God of the Bible, who provided so many examples of answered prayer in the Bible (such as sending a baby to the barren women of the OT) is not answering the prayers of single adults in this day and age with spouses.
Reply to Ms. Sahiyena. You may want to also see the reply I left to “Hmm.” I am a woman, and I totally disagree with your view, and I won’t go into all the reasons why. But I will share one or two.
If you don’t think churches should help single adults who desire marriage to get married, you are leaving them to their own devices.
Which means, a lot of single adults will end up possibly going to seedy, immoral bars and night clubs. And from there, they might possibly be enticed into getting drunk and engaging in one night stands.
A lot of Christians put a lot of stock in the “Equally Yoked” teaching, which says that Christian singles should only date/ marry other Christians (I disagree with that view but won’t get into why here).
Having said that, if a Christian adult single uses a dating site that is not exclusively Christian, and/or they go to bars and nightclubs to meet other singles, they may end up getting involved with dating Non-Christians
If you believe that Christians should marry only other Christians, does it not make more sense that you as a Christian facilitate Christian-on-Christian marriages?
Do you want to risk a Christian going out and looking for love at a local bar and end up getting married to an atheist?
If you want more Christian marriages, (I am always reading about Christians having conniption fits because Christian marriage rates are down), would it not make more sense for your church to help Christian singles get married to Christian singles?
Justin, I’ve always enjoyed your blog posts, even though I know that your target audience is men. I’ve always found your posts to be quite relevant for women, as well, and this article does not fail to live up to that. I’ve often said that I’m glad I am not a man – you guys have a big job and a lot of pressure put on you! I never thought about how dangerous church dating can be for men, and you’re right – women NEED to be called out sometimes! I appreciate you being bold enough to say it.
Thanks Shannon. For sure we all need to be called out, and we all need to be shown grace. It’s a lot harder work of course, but it’s what we are called to. All of us.
Thanks everyone lol
@ BW
Your approach seems good to me. The big thing is to actually meet the girl. I’d say not asking them out the first day you meet them is smart. To me you want to be confident and be yourself and meet them. Then maybe the second or third time you might ask for some contact info – if it seems right.
If you have solid older people it’s a win. At the very least it helps to have people in your life that you trust that know what you are doing and can speak into it. That helps with all things, including dating.
One thing I do want to add in here and get to the root of the discussion that Ms. Sahiyena posted. She wrote the following…
“The House of God is for Prayer and Worship…it is not a bar or any other type of pick up place.”
Which is true. However we as believers need to remember that the church is us, the body of believers worshipping Christ. We do go to a church building to have corporate worship services that worship Christ through giving of hymns, offerings, and the public study of God’s word. But the church doesn’t end there. We also go to fellowship with like minded believers. Essentially our own community of sinful believers who have been forgiven by the blood of Christ and God’s grace. We go for the corporate worship but to fellowship, have accountability with, and enjoy wonderful friendships with brothers and sisters in Christ. Essentially what happens in the church is an example of what will happen in heaven!
Anyway, if someone is going to church (most likely a non believer or young babe in Christ) in order TO pickup a lady, then that is the wrong. Because their heart is in the wrong place, which has happened to all of us in different ways at some points in our walk. But to say that a man should essentially forbid himself interest in a lady at church because it has nothing to do with prayer and worship, and seek a spouse elsewhere is becoming borderline legalism/fundamentalism.
Obviously no mature believer is going to hit on a lady during worship service, Sunday school class, bible study, etc. If a guy did, that gal should get red flags and run far far away! However during the times of friendly fellowship, enjoyment, conversations, and family fun activities with other believers I don’t see anything biblically wrong with taking an interest in a lady. Getting to know a lady who loves the Lord where both individuals are amongst other married believers in fact is a very God honoring way to meet and marry. Doing so within the body of believers that make up the church allows for accountability between a man and woman. It also allows for biblical guidance and counsel from other married believers who can help guide these two young individuals to a solid Christ centered marriage where God sanctifies them both through that marriage.
Ms. Sahiyena – I may be mistaken from your post, but when I read it, it came across as believers are only to show up to church for prayer and worship (singing hymns, reading of scripture) and then go home. As if fellowship apart from the corporate worship services with each other in a loving, friendly, and Christ honoring way isn’t part of the church. I wasn’t sure if you meant that or not so I felt I should ask as well as clarify something that I’ve learned over the years.
BW
After the last polite rejection (polite yes, but still a rejection 🙂 ) I got from a woman who I honestly thought was into me (we laughed over coffee before Sunday school, we were in soldier class together. Sometimes she would sit next to me in church. Small talk after church. We both came through a very dark, and sad period in our lives)…..anyway it was then that I did come to the conclusion that church “probably” wasn’t a good place to meet a woman. In a bigger church I am sure it is hard enough, but most Americans who attend church go to ones under 100 people. Like me. Yeah.
So, REALLY trying to keep yourself Holy, and righteous, and not to become “that guy” and at the same time enduring “that sermon” about how men are not “stepping up” and every woman’s head is nodding in agreement……..and as a man…you don’t know “what” to do….
What was I to do? I had to surrender further to Christ and finally accept that I was going to be a lifelong bachelor. Why? I did it before I would get so bitter and jaded IN church or regretful of a decision to follow Christ, which I could not the devil win on. Christ wants a joyful servant.
I have to say, since I made this choice in June. Life has been easier and I have been feeling a lot better.
A lot of this problem today Justin honestly is that our pastors, many lay leaders, deacons or what-have-you are in uncharted waters themselves. My Officer has been married since 1972. All of the council at my Corps are married and have been since the 1970’s. You have a VERY large segment of the never married, the single-mom, and divorced now strolling in, expecting answers….and they are not getting them…and as I mentioned to The Peaceful Wife, that for us (the singles) it is a bit unfair for us to expect answers from people who “can’t” understand, or have not been through this. Today’s single crowd is a wide bearth of ages, and situations…..and we’re not the easiest people to minister to.
The singles in church today are going have to a a lot of the footwork themselves. They are just going to have to do it. They are going have trust and obey and really soak in the Word. They are going to have to fellowship in some way and they are going to have to hold themselves accountable.
I really don’t see the attitude changing from the “top down” at this point and I am not attacking church leadership……but sometimes the best of us rises from our own personal situations. Great post.
I think you describe the problem accurately.
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I followed that crazy woman’s advice. I wanted dinner yesterday so I read my bible and prayed and got more in God’s will. It’s now 32 hours later and not a drop of food yet. Of course I could go to the store and buy some groceries and cook some food, but where is my exercising faith and proving God in that. Anyways, while I sit here starving and praying and reading and getting deeper into God’s will, I hope he sends me some food.
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Well, I’ve noticed church women always, and I mean always, want a financial provider–which we men are told to do. However, keep in mind that society has changed quite substantially, but this teaching has not. While I want to be the financial provider, 2 main things have happened: the average student loan debt is $30,000, much higher than it has ever been, and we are trying to pay that off. 2nd: Women have an increased role in the workforce, and often make more money than men. In my case I am generally well received by women until the money thing hits–5 of my 6 relationships have ended because of that–and in 1 of those cases was making enough to support a family (I still had a job, but it basically just paid my bills), and another girl was making six figures, but dumped me for another guy making six figures and had a house. Its’s very difficult to be a financial provider when a lot of the finances in the world are now also going to women,and a lot of the finances to all people are going to college and paying back student loans.
My ex fiancee’, who made way more money than me (he earned a six figure income, mine was a low five fig) was consistently exploiting me financially during the time we were engaged (several years). He never paid me back.
There are male gold diggers out there.
My sister also had a long time, live in, boyfriend who she financially supported for over two decades. He seldom had jobs, and when he got them, they were very low paying ones.
I just want you to be aware that the financial thing is not always difficult on men, women have problems in this area as well.
I just did a blog post the other day about this crime story I read about in the news that happened several years ago – a divorced women, age late 50s, was well-off financially. She worked as some kind of therapist or what not, had her own practice, owned a nice house.
She dated a man she met on a dating site. She allowed him to move in with her. He proposed marriage, she said yes, but asked him to sign a pre nup. That made him so angry, he murdered her.
One of the reasons I would say is that there are people in the church that meddles in affairs (lives of others) that they have no business with. In the church I attend; one of the deacons follows my every move to see if I’m always up to no good, along with the pastor’s daughter in law who(and her friends) think I need to hurry up and get married. IF we are supposed to date other Christians, then why are the members of set church being so overbearing about young singles?
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Shawn is dead on!!! I basically stopped dating because the volunteer leaders in my church Singles Group thought they had the right and duty to arrange relationships they approved of, and to discourage people they didn’t like from dating. One married couple who did a lot of this took pride in setting up relationships while their own marriage was breaking up!!! They denied this, but it was well known throughout the church. Sadly, this is a fairly common occurrence.
I met this guy in church. ..very humble and attractive man ..I always had dreams I’m dating him..One day the pastor called and told me there’s someone coming to fetch us so we won’t be late for church. .I went outside there was the guy I saw in ma dream. ..ma friends set at the back and he told me to take the front sit. ..I thought oh my God is this a sign. ..driving to church we were talking. .just general convo. …then after church I approached him and asked if he can take us back home he agreed. ..He dropped ma friends 1st then lastly me. ..He asked for ma name I told him. ..then I dropped off. ..He called me back he asked for ma number and asked if he could see me later I told him of course. ..I was soo excited thinking this is God’s plan why would a guy I had a dream about ask to see me. …later that day he came ..we were talking then all of a sudden he kissed me. ..I pushed him back gentle coz I didn’t see that coming. …He kissed me again again nd he told me his mind and sold have accepted me …He feels like he has known me for foreva…blah blah blah. ..we kissed and kissed …He was touching me everywhre. ..afta that we said our goodbyes. ….I sent him a text asking if he is home safely since he didn’t call me he apologised for not calling when he got home …..The following day he didn’t call me then I saw him at church the 3rd day. ..to be honest ma tommy was in knots was thinking Wat do I do if I see him. ..do I smile. ..maybe he doesn’t like me that’s y he hasn’t called me but y did he kiss me like that. .I saw him come in …He sat infront of me. ..it was worship time pple were singing and dancing. ..He was also dancing but way different than his usual dance. ..its like he was high on something. …He wasn’t himself.. ..i thought maybe he also had butterflies then he took something to ease himself but that was a turn off for. .now im stressed and confused. ..why do hasn’t he called…y didn’t he ask to see me afta church ….what do u think is happening here. help
In my opinion, there are many men out there as wolves but in sheep clothing. They appears as though they are the right sort of guy only ending up to take something so dear from you and walk away.
More needs to be done to discern this kind of men. Not that this particular guy is one but it seems to me that he might be.
Yes you guys took it a step further than you should have but that doesn’t warrant his behavior.
If you require closure from him, you might want to have a word to clear things. But be sure that you are moving on. One important word in the bible (in proverbs 4:23) in such cases is that you should always guard your heart closely.
Not saying you should become mean spirited to other men because you are safeguarding yourself, I am saying with more discernment, accountability and discipline, better decisions and judgement calls will be made in the future.
Please don’t be stressed and confused. if need be, you can talk to someone trusted about it and they can work & walk with you. God is the ultimate but I’m sure he uses people to guide and help us heal.
Thank you Kyle. Spot on. SPOT ON. You took the words right out of my mouth. I can SO relate to several aspects of your post. Who wants to go into a church (my situation) where I’m labeled as a “creep” just for wanting to be friends with a woman I thought was a really nice girl and spiritually mature? I guess she was more cultural than spiritual in the sense of going with what her culture taught her rather than the Bible in a way.
It’s like I would be reminded, week after week, what I did by the cold stares and odd looks I got from people – including the woman I was very kind to that got all cold on me and avoided me like the bubonic plague. Then after I left the sermon, I felt worse or no different than I was before going in. And some people would wonder why I had such a stone cold facial expression. Think about it, people.
Pastors and other Christians online tell people to go to church anyhow and be a team player – that we all have hardships. Yeah? Team player huh? Well, I’m a team player – BUT will NOT play on a team with other players who only want to play half mass and drag their heals in the mud or who bring other players down. Where’s the coach? Why isn’t he disciplining the poor players? Oh that’s right. He possibly doesn’t want to offend anyone for fear of losing numbers. That’s probably why he won’t say anything over the pulpit.
They say church is a hospital? Really? What kind of hospital is that, a place where you get abused by the other patients? A hospital where you either feel the same or worse than you were before going in? That’s a spiritual hospital?? Not very legit if such is the case. Pastors, get off of your butts and DO something about it instead of filing your nails, putting your feet up and asking for out tithes.
I have ben a strong believer in Christ since 1998.. i was 13..; Now i’m 32… and let me tell you, I have never had a consistant christian lady in my life… I have a friend in the world that told me “the church girl, and or the highly materialistic girl, their exeptectations are too high.. they stay super single… Their exepectations can be unrealistic… They want a man with bill gates type of money…
It is true that going to Church just to find a cute girl to date is not a Godly idea for attending Church. However, in Church, you have definitely a much higher likelihood of finding a Godly woman than any other place, like a college or a university. And it is a good idea to look for a Godly woman in Church because the Scripture tells us not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers and that Church is a community of believers coming together. For these reasons, I think Church is the best place to find a Godly girlfriend or wife.
I have been blacklisted in 2 churches…still the search continues…hahaha. It is hard especially when people know you are in church looking for a wife,.
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Yep! I was made to feel like “That guy” in the church I put 30 plus years service and commitment into. I was supposed to be “a man” and pursue, but I had a pastor in the church approach me in a service and basically fend me off. Needless to say I no longer attend and serve there.
I just think all church women are fake. One of the worst things I’ve ever done was thinking that my church was a great place to find a wife. Hint I was seeking to find a wife not a booty call, or a screw buddy which is what all the women at my church was looking for. I always interacted with these women in a safe public place and never tried to take any of them to my home or go to theirs. I was always very respectable and even with that my Pastor was told by a few of them that I was in so many words starker them even thought we were only going to local parks walking and I was always very respectable. Church women are a mess. My advice; (STAY THE CRAP AWAY FROM THEM!!!!). The are danger to a good Godly man or any man that looking to grow in God. Many of them are only hiding behind the church acting and playing the role that they are all good and screwing every man in the world that cant be found out by the member of their local church. It’s sad. Men if you are really trying to work for God please don’t date in church. It’s not worth it. It’s Gods way but not the local churches way.
I agree that dating should not be the reason for anyone to go to church. But it also applies to friendships as well. A person should never try to convert their friends to go to church with him/her. If one does , it makes the friendship awkward and even calculated. I became friends with someone when I was in high school, and was upfront about wanting to know what religion I was and if I wanted to go to church with her. When I asked my mom, I honestly thought that she would have said ‘no’, but she said ‘yes’. While it seemed okay at first, she as well as her mother was pressuring me to do things at their church, including joining. That was a big mistake for me. The were too persistent about every single church activity and needing me to go to church when they wanted to go, which ironically, was not every Sunday. I could never catch a break from their church talk or preaching. Long story short, our friendship did suffer because most of the time, my friend only wanted to have contact with me only if I went to church with her.
So, I will say that I would not want to date someone at church without knowing him for a great length of time. Not many years, but long enough so that I know what his true values are, and what his personality and mannerism is like. To me, the way a person conducts himself says a lot about the kind of Christian he is. I would want someone who walks the walk, not just talks the talk. I agree with an earlier point that was made about when you date someone in church, it can be very awkward if it doesn’t work out because you have to see that person every time you go to church. So, I would probably end up leaving that church if I dated someone and it ended badly, or to where there is not civility between us. A little off the subject, maybe that it is big reason why employers generally don’t allow employees do date.
I think you are bit too demanding on your need to know a guy at church very well before accepting a date. If you treat guys as if they are predators, they will grow cold (and disinterested) very quickly, (and permanently).
Just wanted to offer up a woman’s perspective here. I’m sure there are plenty of times where men get the label of being “that guy” unfairly. However, I also think there are men who get labeled as “that guy” because they’re doing some things that really aren’t ok. Here’s a short list of things to avoid. They can mainly be summed up by remembering that church is not a dating club. Women and men go to church to get closer to God, be respectful of that goal and treat women like fellow believers.
1) Don’t be the guy who approaches a new girl the first time she visits a church and try to monopolize her so that you can ask her on a date before the other guys get a chance. Her connection to you should not trump her connection to Jesus. Introduce her to people, maybe help her find a small group and feel welcome. Ask her on a date once she’s settled in.
2) Do not ask out every single girl who isn’t taken.
3) Do not ask out a different girl every week.
4) Do not walk up to a girl ask her about whether or not she volunteers, what her beliefs on some verse are and if she’s in a Bible study and then ask her out. Have a conversation like a normal human being, not a wife interview.
5) I don’t think anyone should really ever be asking people out over facebook, but if you ever find yourself copying and pasting facebook messages to ask a girl out, stop everything you’re doing and go find a wise older man to disciple you. You just shouldn’t be dating at all right now.
6) Keep in mind that dating is genuinely scary for some women. Women who date a bad guy can wind up being beaten or raped or stalked. She knows this because she’s heard stories about it all her life and it’s probably happened to people she knows, maybe even to her. Just because you know you never do those things does not mean she can tell when she first meets you. Don’t act like she’s crazy for being cautious.
7) Just because you’re ultimately looking for a wife does not mean that you should ask what she expects from a husband on the first date or that going on a few dates should end in marriage. (This one really goes for both genders, but I felt the need to include it because too many people out there really just need to calm down)
Now, if you avoid all these things and make an effort to treat women in your church as fellow believers first and you still get labeled as “that guy” just because you’ve asked more than one girl out at your church, you have my genuine sympathy and please know that none of this was directed to you.
Ibam single but I was going to church because my friend went there. I felt out of place because everything was about married couples. All the woman in the woman’s group talked about And All the trips were you and your spouse. Stopped going. I wasn’t there to meet.someone 9 was there spiritually and it was ruined. So not all churches have a bunch of singles.
So try finding another church- a Spirit-filled one. Don’t let that one Church experience stop you from getting close to Jesus.
First, check for any engagement ring on her finger. If not, keep trying to sit near her. Try and make some sort of eye contact. She will know by your glance that you give her, that you’re interested. But don’t give crazy, creeper looks or stares. If she catches you looking at her and she is interested back, she will try to make eye contact with you again later. It may not be that same day, but it may be another day. If she is not interested, she may sit in a different area or move to another seat further from you next time, or when she catches you looking at her again, she may look away right away. And after praying about her, and getting confirmation from God through godly dreams/visions, or Holy Spirit guidance that she may be the one, then when greeting/shaking hands, quickly introduce yourself and ask her what her name is. “Nice to meet you”.. she may take notice that you don’t ask other women for their name. Then next time, you can greet her by her name. This can open up to further small talk. Do what the Holy Spirit leads you to do. ..I like a guy at church, and feel I’ve gotten the hint from God, but I’m waiting for him to act. He’s given subtle hints. I would appreciate for him to say something to me, even being direct at this point. Or if he doesn’t want to move forward, I’d like to know so I can move forward. Honestly men, take the risk. Humility is good for the Body, remember. So, if you get rejected, or things don’t end up working out, and she turns out to be bitter with you at Church, then wow, it’s good that you found out sooner than later. Just simply try and ask “So, are we good?” 😉 I liked that! At least you tried to smooth things over. That’s all I have to say. God bless you, brothers and sisters!
A true Christian woman look with in the heart and wouldn’t care if a guy rich or poor . Most woman are truly crazy . They would go out with a guy who is good looking and rich and get cheated on or hit on they go with a guy who is poor or true .
Response to Jon, who said,
“A true Christian woman look with in the heart and wouldn’t care if a guy rich or poor . Most woman are truly crazy . They would go out with a guy who is good looking and rich and get cheated on or hit on they go with a guy who is poor or true .”
—end quote—
I was a “true Christian woman” for many years (I’ve sort of been drifting away from the faith the last few years, but I was very devout from my teen years up until my early 40s and am still single-),
And I hate to disappoint you, but things like physical appearance matter to both biological sexes (yes, most women, even devout Christian ones, like a trim and good looking man), and, most women, even Christian ones, at least want a guy who is a steady provider (he does not have to be super wealthy).
One reason I think so many Christian single men stay single is precisely because so many Christians (in their web pages and magazine articles, or from the pulpit) keep telling Christian men this false view that the only thing Christian single women care about is that the guy “loves Jesus and reads his Bible weekly.”
If the only thing you have to bring to a relationship or to dating is that you read a Bible and believe in Jesus – but maybe you are terribly overweight, or, your two front teeth are missing – you’re not likely to get many girlfriends, let alone married.
It would behoove you to diet and regularly work out at a gym (if you have a weight problem), and get dental work, if necessary.
This sort of thing goes for overweight women, as well – they all think single men should just ignore their extra 30+ pounds and look at their “inner beauty.” That’s not how most healthy dating relationships start, work, or last, however.
I don’t think physical appearance or money should be the only thing people consider in a life partner, but they do matter to a degree, to most of us.
And Christian culture doesn’t do single men any favors by feeding them this fantasy that “true Christian women” only care about a man’s standing “with the Lord” and how often he volunteers at a church, and that sort of thing.
Even most Christian women care about what a guy looks like, and would he make a good provider, does he have a good sense of humor, and so on.
Wow! Very good points.
Certainly agree that dental health and bad breath are a big problem! And they don’t need to be… use an electric toothbrush and floss regularly… and yes, I’m 65 and use a gym, play tennis and want to return to skiing this year… my wife divorced me after a mostly hellish marriage that I rushed into unwisely aged about 50. She earned more than I did, but unbeknown to me had been living a fantasy life based on £24k of credit card debt, mostly with her second husband. Nothing I did was enough, but several people at the end said ‘you did a lot for those children’, which was fair:). To risk a relationship again would be difficult, but I would be much wiser! My church is large with mostly families and sometimes ’emotionally unavailable’ single women, but as that lovely Christian writer Ingrid Trobisch wrote: ‘our task is to try and live a fulfilled life, despite many unfulfilled desires’.
Even at church it is still very difficult to meet a good woman nowadays since most of them are very stuck up total losers altogether. And God forbid if you just say good morning or hello to a woman that many of us men would like too meet which has become very extremely dangerous now unfortunately. Can’t win either way.
You said,
“Even at church it is still very difficult to meet a good woman nowadays since most of them are very stuck up total losers altogether…”
Wow. As a fellow single adult, I am picking up some hostility towards women in your post, and when you’re around other women, they can sense that – and it’s a turn off.
BTW, if a woman is not interested in dating you, that does not make her a “stuck up total loser.” She can have any number of reasons why she is not attracted to you – it seems like you’re taking it far too personally and then projecting it (unfairly) on the entire female biological sex.
I recently moved to a new city because of a promotion. All churches filled mostly with old women (my mothers age and up type of old), couples that have been married since 1973 or whatever. The pastors daughter (who is pretty but off limits, even if I was 25 with a nice head of hair), a few women my age with two, three, four kids in tow all with different fathers (and I am now supposed be a “real man” step-up and date / wife them…..or again I am not a ‘real mighty man of God’). The single set in their twenties and thirties……….all living at home, none seem to be looking for work (men) and the women have no problem with being a single mom to a guy they met outside the church…..
Music is still terrible
Staying home and reading The Bible and praying. Seems to be working out better than being in a church.
Hang in there everyone, and pray for His return
I think there is a problem with going to a church and thinking you will date any man or woman there. Give me a break! If you are in church great- but you should be there to focus on God. I do think though churches should foster an environment where people can develop friendships which can potentially turn into other relationships….and this is also where churches fail because they don’t have events for singles. Sometimes a church goes too far and tries to set people up- that is a really bad idea…but I also don’t think it is a bad idea to have events where they can mingle with people their own age. There isn’t enough of that. People don’t want to go online to find someone (since 80% of people LIE online mostly about their status as single or religion/etc.) Its better to meet people in person that you know, but oftentimes you don’t know who is looking or not. Bugging someone who isn’t interested is awkward, as is if you are seeing it as a casual let me see if we could be compatible vs “i’ve had a crush on you for months!” People tend to not be upfront about their feelings. I get that…but I also think women in church jump to wanting to marry everyone that says “hello” to them (get real!) and men may not be that hot to trot to jump to marriage right away (and really NO ONE should be!). It takes time to get to know someone. If you like someone and they don’t like you, it isn’t a reason for leaving a place.
I’m going to throw this out there— the end goal of humans is not marriage but devotion to God. Marriage is great, but way too many women idolize it as the epitome of their existence. It is an idol when they should be focused on Christ. Sometimes men do this but its way less often. A man cannot fulfill your every need. If you have issues prior to marriage they are going to be more obvious when . married. I think meeting someone in church is fine, as long as it is done appropriately and like the person above me said “people don’t jump to conclusions after coffee!” Just because 2 people are Christian doesn’t auto make them compatible for each other. You can’t change people. If you have nothing in common or you don’t like them, you can’t “force” it because you are desperate. It will collapse. For some, it is far better to be single. It isn’t a sin to be single. Jesus was single. It shouldn’t be as if marriage is progress”to adulthood. It isn’t. Always remember that.
Very true. Couldn’t agree more!
Why then did God make woman from man if marriage wasn’t His plan. He could have just told Adam “be devoted to me, buddy.”
I have recently had a horrible experience. We weren’t dating, just friends. He wanted more. Long story short, I no longer attend the church and am concerned about my reputation after the way he lied when I had to take him to court.
I just can’t.
As a guy, the worst thing about asking a woman out in church is you have one chance at that church, and that is it. If she says no, then you have no chance with any other woman in the church. Why? Because they all talk to each other, and they all will know you asked her out. No matter how long you wait to try again with someone else, she will tell you to buzz off. Why? Because she will think you see her as a backup, or “second best” to the one you asked out previously. I had this happen to me, twice, over the course of about 4 years. I rarely ask women out because of having a 100% rejection rate, so when I take the chance, it means I think a lot of the person I’m asking and I’m not just trying to just hit on anyone who is female. Of course, being ugly didn’t help, but still didn’t warrant the vitriolic responses I got, but that’s another story.
I finally gave up on going to church because in my town; the churches only care about college students (almost 70,000 when school is in session), families/children, and seniors. Singles older than 25 are tolerated at best, or are treated with open hostility at worst. We’re treated like we’re defective, sexual deviants (if male), potential adulteresses (if female), usually by the seniors and church leadership. I can worship God on my own. I don’t need to go somewhere that I feel worse when I leave.
I really think evangelical ism stuffed up big time with developing confident people who like who they are. As a thirty year old male ( not quite as old as others), I’m disappointed. Namely that I feel lied to by pastors, who actually don’t have the faintest idea how to actually talk to men in a way that builds confidence. But also lied to because you think that when you go to church you would become more healthy. With the good ole Man up speeches, stay single and save the world, wait for the perfect spouse, I kissed dating goodbye rubbish, is there any wonder why we are in this mess. Going to church seems stupid now when it was exciting before. It’s not the Bible who is stupid, nor is it God, whom I love. Nor is it the church who is stupid as it is Jesus’s body and the people in it. It’s just these really bizarre conclusions that are made by pastors and theologians that get me. The shaming of dating for no apparent reason, from my perspective has really destroyed the magic between men and women in the church. Will theologians take responsibility? Seems like they just have swept these ideas under carpet whilst many g xers, millennials and gen zs are confused and unable to meet their companion.
Today, during the sermon at my church, the pastor discussed marriage, emphasizing the idea that men should take the lead in initiating relationships. About a month ago, I politely asked a girl out, but she declined. I handled the rejection gracefully, thanking her and expressing no hard feelings. However, I’ve since noticed her coldness and avoidance towards me, which concerns me given societal dynamics. When I asked her about it, she requested space, which I respected. Despite being in our late 30s, her behavior still puzzles me. It seems contradictory to the mature and intentional approach I take towards relationships. It’s disheartening to think that she may judge me based on one interaction, especially when my intentions were sincere in getting to know her better over dinner.