Why It Doesn’t Matter If You Would “Treat Her Better”

So recently I heard a song by Sean Mendes aptly titled “Treat You Better”.  This song frankly encapsulates how guys (especially young guys) often see the dating scene completely wrong.  Especially “nice” guys.  Especially Christian “nice” guys.  I know this, because for a long time, longer than I care to admit, I was this guy.  In my teen years (Mendes is 18) I could have written this song.  Heck, I wrote some songs like this.

When I was a teenager, I always liked the girl that dated the guy that was “bad” for her. Pretty much literally all of my high school crushes could be summed up in that.  I was the good guy friend.  Sometimes I actually was a real friend, but other times that was just the line they told me to be nice instead of telling me to get lost.

I was seen as the nice guy.  The guy who would make some girl happy one day, just not that girl.  She instead dated the guy who was crazy, dangerous (read exciting) and who they were typically sleeping with (read sexually attracted to).  I was none of those things.

Now when things went bad, I was confided in often.  I was their ride home, their “brother”, or the type of guy who they wanted to end up with, but not date.

In my mind I wanted to rescue them.  I was better than that guy who treated them wrong. I was holier than the guy they were sleeping with.  I loved them after all.  And if they would just see that I was right for them everything could be better.  But that’s not how it works.

As I got older this became less true.  Although I still had no understanding of how to be attractive to the girl that I wanted to date/marry, by my late 20s I wasn’t trying to get the girl dating the “bad” guy so much.

But today I want to share some thoughts for all of the young men out there who are faced with these similar scenarios, many of whom I’m sure are feeling the Mendes song deeply.  I know I would have felt this song.

Here is my first thought.  If you listen to that song and think it’s you – you are in trouble and you need to seek something different – now.  It’s time to grow up a little.

Here’s where you are at.

You’re attracted to a girl.  You see her beauty and you see that she needs saved from dating someone other than you – the “bad for her” guy.  You are there for her, listen to her, give her advice.  If you are a young Christian you might call it “ministering” to her. You of course tell her how great she is and that she deserves better.  She’s not into you, but you want her to be and if you can just convince her she would be. You may or may not have told her how you feel.

Worse, in Christian circles we actually often set you up for this.  We’ve taught you that women’s sin is tied to men’s.  So anything she is doing bad is actually the “bad” guy’s fault. We’ve taught you that it is your job to man up and chase her.  Even more devastating, we’ve taught you that if you are a good Christian nice guy, she should like you.

But, that’s not the truth.  Pretty much none of that is the truth.  I’m not saying that out of any sort of anger or bitterness from my story.  I’m saying it because deep down you know it too and part of being a man is seeing the truth, owning it, and doing something about it. Don’t beat yourself up, just be willing to learn.

She isn’t attracted to that guy because he’s bad.  She just is attracted.  Attraction is not a choice.  Maybe she shouldn’t be with him.  But it doesn’t really matter.  She is with him and not with you.  Maybe she wishes she was attracted to you.  But she’s not.  And despite what a lot of really cheesy movies, songs, and Christian speakers say, she probably won’t be.  And if she were to end up with you, it won’t be because you are going to “treat her better” as it were.

So here is what you need to do if this is where you are at:

  • Stop chasing this girl.  Right now.  She isn’t the one.  There will be someone else.
  • If you are legitimately friends with her and you are a teenager – that’s ok.  You can be her friend.  But don’t be her special friend or her confidant.  You are done being the one who does all sorts of things for her as if you are a boyfriend without being her actual boyfriend.  If you are over 25, stop hanging out with her.  Now.
  • Quit being the nice guy.  Don’t be the “He’s nice but” guy.  Avoid that.  Grow out of that.
  • Become a student of attraction.  Not romance, not sex, and not marriage.  The Church can teach you all about being a husband. But that has nothing to do with attraction.  Learn what attracts women.
  • Think about how you act with girls you hang out with every day, vs. how you act when you are chasing a particular girl.  How do you view each, and how do they view you.
  • Do not become a “bad” guy.  That’s not actually what is holding you back. Good and bad have nothing to do with it.   It’s about confidence both in who you are, and in how you interact.
  • Learn to avoid the friend zone – even if it means walking away.  Again, you can be friends, you can’t be “that friend”.  Don’t allow it.
  • Work on how you view your self.  Your insecurities.  Your sin.  What you think of your looks.  What you think of your sexual ability.
  • Work on being respectable instead of likable.
  • Figure out where you are going, and go there.  Find someone who wants to go with you.  Not someone you have to chase or drag with you.

I have no idea if Mendes is singing from the heart of his own story or not.  I don’t know if the video is personal.  What I do know is I’ve been there.  What I do know is that a lot of young men feel this. What I do know is that the guy in the video does not end up with that girl.

Some Help For The Ladies

Most of my usual readers know that this blog is written mainly for men.  Lots of ladies read this and probably 70% of what I write here is pretty applicable to both sexes.  This is especially true of all that I’ve said theologically about celibacy, family and the Church.  It’s mostly true of the things we discuss having to do with living in the context of being unmarried including things like dealing with sexual desire, community, touch, money, dealing with loss, etc.

However most of what I’ve offered here in terms of what to do with attraction, how to attract people, how to get a date and how to date, have been very guy centered.  I’ve had several requests from female readers at different times for thoughts on what they can do in those areas.  So I want to offer some thoughts today.

I’m not going to write several posts on this although I surely could.  But that is not the main format of the blog and not really my wheelhouse because after all, I’m a guy.

So instead I want to offer some things that the ladies can do with some tidbits on what not to do mixed in.

Here are some things to do:

Go ahead and initiate contact

There is a difference between initiating with someone and pursuing them.  We all know that women want to be pursued (not chased).  But as a guy it can be hard to know who to pursue and a little help on the front end can go a long way.  It can be as simple as being the first to make eye contact and smile.  There is nothing wrong with introducing yourself or starting a conversation with some guy you might be interested in.  I wouldn’t advise asking them out.  But you can talk with them, laugh with them, be friendly and even a little flirty.  There’s nothing wrong with that.  It creates a comfort level.  I think this is especially true in the church setting where sometimes guys are being too careful (which is sometimes merited).

Make yourself available

This could mean showing up at events that you know good men will be at.  It might mean letting a certain guy know where you’ll be.  I had a good friend share with me how she once had a guy she met at church who she wanted to know more.  She loved biking and found out that he did as well.  She shared with him that her and some friends biked at a certain place at a certain time and that he was welcome to come.  It wasn’t a date.  But it gave him a chance to show up.  Which he did.  And then he asked her out.

Being available might mean seeing that a guy goes out the same door every Sunday and choosing to go out that door – sort of setting up the opportunity to run into you.  It might mean online dating.  I know that there are pros and cons to that, but it for sure puts you in a place to of availability to meet men.

Put your most attractive self forward

Dress feminine.  I’m not saying dress sexual.  But it’s ok to put some effort into it.  And don’t downplay that.  Don’t talk about your “faults” when you are with a guy on a date.  I had women do this all the time.  They would tell me all that was wrong with them.  They’d tell me how much weight they gained or lost.  They’d tell me how they were difficult or couldn’t change this or that.  I guess there is a place for that but it’s not early on.  Maybe they wanted to lower the bar or make sure I wouldn’t run at the first negative thing.  But frankly here’s the deal.  If a man is on a date with you, he was at least fairly attracted to you.  You should just go with that.  Don’t sabotage it.  He likes you a little or he wouldn’t be there.

Learn to just say no and yes and be respectful either way

If someone asks you out, there are only two possible answers to that.  Yes or no. Anything else is disrespectful.  If you don’t want to go out you can be nice – but say no nicely.  You aren’t dating Jesus.  You don’t have other plans that day. You’re not working on you right now.  You just don’t want to.  That’s ok.  If he keeps asking you out, then say no a bit more firmly.  But don’t go nuclear with it.  If you do want to go out with him then for the love of all things holy say yes.  If you don’t know if you want to out with him and he meets your qualifiers, my advise is say yes – at least once maybe twice.  You don’t have to know you want to marry him.  It’s a date.  If you want to go out with him and he is not a good guy – then say no and stay the heck out of that situation.  Become unavailable.

Readers – maybe you could throw some other thoughts out.  Ladies – what has been helpful to you.  Guys, what have you appreciated.  We don’t need comments here just ripping each other – that’s pointless.

 

Avoid The Nice Guy Trap

One of the complaints I hear all the time from men (and that I used to make all the time) is that women, and in our case Christian women, always seem to choose the bad guy over the good guy.  If you are a consistent reader hear then you know that I would say that is the wrong view of a real issue.

Here is what women do – they choose the guy they are attracted to over the one they aren’t.

There are a lot of men who say that women should date them because they can be a great husband, are trying to be godly etc, even though they are not, for whatever reason attractive to women.  I would ask that guy, are you asking out women you know to be godly that you are not attracted to?  I’m guessing no.

So rather than sit around and complain, maybe we should think about what is attractive and work on it.

This leads us right back into something that I’ve written about before but I want to address in a different way.  If “nice” guys are not attractive, why do we continue to be nice and how do we keep getting into that spot.

If we are the nice guy, chances are that we will keep getting friend zoned by women.  Maybe eventually a woman, after being with enough “not nice guys” will decide to choose the nice guy, but usually that leads to a marriage that isn’t super successful either.

Today I want to talk about why we think we should be or need to be nice.  Later I want to talk about how to get out of it.

There are lots of reasons that men, especially Christian men, fall into the “nice” trap.  Here are a few.

We think that if we are nice, that it will be reciprocated.  

This of course isn’t actually being nice for niceness sake.  It’s being a player in it’s own way.  In other words I like the girl so I’ll be really nice.  I’ll meet her needs.  I’ll buy here stuff.  I’ll listen to her problems and “minister” to her.  And if I help her enough, surely she will want to be with me.  Except that she won’t.  And if she does it won’t be because you did those things.  Forgetting the fact that this is just as manipulative as any other “game” move, it is not typically effective.

The Church has taught men that if they are nice (or Godly or servants or . . .), women will be attracted.

Making matters worse is the fact that most in the church teach their men this.  They say, serve the woman, protect the woman, rescue the woman, listen to the woman.  I’m not saying that we shouldn’t do those things.  But what I am saying is that those things will not make you attractive to her.  And getting mad about it won’t change that.

You cannot serve your way to attraction.  You cannot buy your way to attraction.

I know you’ve seen the romantic movies (made for women) where the guy buys the flowers or rescues the damsel.  But go back and re-watch those movies.  When was the girl attracted?  Seriously.  Think about it.

Often we think that we can “save” the girl and if we do then she will want to be with us.  I know I thought this a lot.  But it just doesn’t work that way.  Look, the hero isn’t attractive because he is nice – he’s attractive because he is strong, brave, and doesn’t need anything back from the person he’s saving.

We equate being nice with being good.

This is a false dichotomy.  Nice does not always equal good.  You see someone doing something wrong.  What’s the nice get along thing to do?  What’s the right thing to do?

Jesus was not nice . . . at all really.  He was for sure good.  He called out stuff.  He was fully confident in who He was.  He didn’t need anything from anyone other than God. Remember in The Chronicles of Narnia? Aslan (the Jesus character) was a lion for heaven’s sake.  Not safe, but good.  There’s a difference.

We are scared.

Finally the reason a lot of guys are nice is because they are afraid.  Afraid of rejection.  Afraid of not being liked.  Afraid of conflict.  Afraid of tension.

This fear causes many men to not approach women at all.  It causes others to do it extremely poorly.  It also causes husbands to not lead their wives.  Avoiding conflict and tension with women is a terrible plan.  I had a mentor who said that most men are afraid of their wives.  Look around you and tell me it’s not true.  Happy wife, happy life right?  Really what we mean is don’t deal with crap and then we won’t fight.

I’m not saying be an a-hole.  What I’m saying is that being nice while expecting reciprocation is not really nice.  Being nice to get the girl is horrible plan.  Being nice and being good are not the same and being nice to avoid “trouble” is not healthy.

Gentlemen I get it.  I really do.  I was the nice guy to the women I liked for almost two decades.  What’s funny is that I’m not really that nice.  But I was nice to them.  You know what that did for me?  Nothing.  I honestly don’t think it served those women.  It for sure didn’t help me get married.

Should I Give That Guy One More Date?

A few weeks ago I wrote a post about chasing vs. pursuing.  I’ve already decided we need some new language to make all of that more clear, but that is not the topic for today.

I received a note from one of my female leaders asking a good question in response to that post.  In actuality she asks a much more important question, perhaps without knowing it.  I don’t typically write specifically to women here because, well I’m not one, and I don’t come from that experience.  But I think this is important and merits an post.

Her question

In follow up to the post on chasing vs pursing, may you write a refresher on how women should appropriately response to being chased or pursed? I think that for the well liked, popular Christian single lady, it may be easier to differentiate the two and act accordingly, perhaps due to exposure or experience. For other women, especially when requests and invitations are few and far in between, or even non existent, it can be hard to tell what is a good and noble pursuit versus what is simply a chase because we are a woman. Sadly, I have fallen for this one, and I would appreciate insight on how a woman should respond to such encounters in the future.

This question brings up a few very important points that we need to consider.  So let me take a crack at them here, while hopefully helping answer the intent of her question.

I think what she is really asking is not so much how to understand the difference between knowing when guy is chasing vs pursuing, but instead how to know who to respond to. How do you know who is noble regardless of their approach?

This is a vitally important thing for women to get a hold of.  Because here is a gigantic truth.  Ok ready?  Both noble and ignoble men can be chasers and both noble and ignoble men can be pursuers.

This is what I’ve been telling men here for four years.  Being a good Christian guy or even being a guy who would make a great Christian husband does not necessarily help you attract the girl you want.  It doesn’t hurt, but it’s not typically what causes or doesn’t cause attraction.  It doesn’t get you in the door – it should help you seal the deal.  It’s the difference between marketing and managing.   Two totally different skill sets.

In the Church we only teach one skill set – that’s being a married person. It’s killing us.

So let me actually answer the question as best I can for the ladies that are interested out there.

First, you need to understand that initial attraction, while nice should always be checked with some qualifiers.  Now that doesn’t mean you have to figure out all the qualifiers before you go on a date.  But it does mean you are looking for some things. And you are looking for them quickly.

I say quickly because if you let attraction grow with someone who isn’t qualified you can end up in a bad spot in a hurry.  Pretty soon you are saying things like, “I know he’s not a Christian but I can’t help what I feel“.  Bad.

What you need to have clear in your head is that for most women, what is attractive about a guy initially is how he carries himself, how he talks to you, how he “makes you feel”. Again there is nothing wrong with feeling attracted, even to the “wrong” person.  But that attraction does not make the guy noble or not.

There are a lot of guys who would make great husbands who come off less attractive at first.  But if you want a good marriage, then you need to think about not just how you feel, but what kind of man this guy is.  Is he deep?  Does he lead others?  Is anyone following him?  Do people respect him?  How does he treat people?  What does he do with his time and money?  Is he a hard worker?  These are all good questions that show you more about him.

A great example happened recently to a gal I know pretty well.  She came to me after being on a few online dates. She said that one of the guys seemed like a really good guy, with a really good background.  She “wanted to like him” but she didn’t “feel” that attraction.  Now realize this is after one, maybe two dates.  She asked me what I thought.

I said, if you want to get married then I would maybe give this guy another couple of dates.  The truth is that a lot of Christian guys aren’t super comfortable and confident right out of the box.  There are many reasons for this (which we’ve talked about ad nauseam here) but if you think he is a high quality guy, then I’d give it another go.

She did and they are well on their way to marriage.  As they dated more, he got more comfortable and therefore she grew more attracted.

Now that won’t happen every time.  I’m not suggesting here that you marry someone you aren’t attracted to – although you could.  What I’m saying is that how someone pursues you has to do with attraction, not how noble they are.

Bottom line, if a good guy seems awkward at first, I’d give him another chance.  See if after a couple of dates you feel different. If he stays weird then yeah, maybe you bolt.  And if a guy charms you and you are paying attention and figure out that he isn’t a good guy, forget what you “feel” and bolt.  In a dream world, you are instantly attracted to a good guy.  But we live in the real world.

 

 

Chasing Vs. Pursuing

I recently have received a couple of notes from readers asking for more on the difference between pursuing and chasing.  In other words, we are taught, especially in Christian circles, that we should pursue a woman we are interested in.  But as I have stated here many times, we should never chase a woman that we are interested in because it pretty much ensures failure.

But in our culture and language this can be a really fine line.  Let’s face it, from a purely linguistic standpoint they are very similar and we should probably find other words.  But when I think of these two words in the context of trying to find a spouse, I think they are worlds a part.

So what is the difference?  How do we pursue and not chase?  What does it look like?

Let me take a stab at it.

Let’s sort of start with some basic characteristics of each because most of this has to do with keeping our mindset right.

Chasing has the feel of desperation.  Dogs chase cars.  How does that turn out?  It’s hasty.  It’s a feeling of trying to attain the woman.  It’s needing the woman to like us, respond to us or give us acceptance, approval, or validation.  Getting the woman is the goal.  Rejection means the end of the world because our worth gets wrapped up in it.

Pursuit doesn’t feel desperate.  I pursue a degree.  The a methodicalness to it.  While consistent it isn’t hurried.  The feeling is getting to know the woman.  You’re not even sure where it will go but you are willing to find out.  It’s wanting to be with the woman but not needing to be.  It comes from a place of already being acceptable, and validated.  I like her, but I don’t in any way need her to like me.

Chasing means being nice.  All.the.time.  It means trying to earn the woman by doing things that try to win her affections. It can come from being afraid of rejection or failing. It means being afraid to make her mad.  Chasing means trying to be who we think she wants us be and focusing on what we think she wants us to do for her.

Pursuing means being kind.  It means coming from a place of strength and honor.  It means working on being attractive, not seeking her approval.  It means that rejection won’t really matter that much.  It means being able to stand up to her. It means being the type of man that she wants to be with, not that does everything she wants.

Chasing conveys I can’t live without you, while pursuit conveys that while you could, you don’t want to.  Chasing says, “I sure hope you could like me”.  Pursuit says simply, “I’m interested in you.”  Chasing means trying to convince her to be with you.  Pursuit means trying to get to know her and then inviting her to be with you.  Chasing means following her around and doing everything she wants.  Pursuit means going somewhere and inviting her to come with you.

Now all of this sounds great.  But what does it look like practically?

First of all, we need to get in our heads that our culture and most often even the church has taught us wrong.  The movies all seem to show guys who do these huge romantic gestures to women who then fall for them.  Or they show guys who rescue the girl and then she falls for them.  But what gets left out here is that the guy in the movie is already attractive to the woman.  In fact usually at first they don’t get along so to speak. Most often there is tension.  When they finally get together it’s usually painted as the guy finally comes around.  But really the woman was always attracted.

In evangelical culture we are taught to be nice.  We should tame our desire for sex, man up and be nice.  If we are Godly enough then that will be attractive.  Two problems here. First the definition of a Godly man is off (more later) and second, being a Godly man doesn’t necessarily make us attractive.  Being confident it Christ is helpful, but just being a good Christian is not necessarily that helpful.  (It is helpful in a relationship, but not so much in getting into one).

So here are a few practical examples of what this might look like.

Pursuit means asking a woman about her favorite book.  Chasing means going out the next day and buying the book.  Pursuit is a well timed gift without any strings attached. Chasing is buying a gift to get her to like you or to win her (or to placate her anger). Chasing is calling her because you’re afraid of what will happen if you don’t.  Pursuit means calling her just because you want to talk to her.  Chasing means rearranging your whole life around her.  Pursuit means carving out space in your plans to include her.

Chasing comes from a need to be loved   Pursuit comes from not needing her love but offering yours and she can take it or leave it.

Should We Fear The Pickup Artist?

Full time ministry people typically read a lot.  Now I’m not talking about seminary classes here, although those are great.  What I’m talking about is the books we read beyond that.

Christian leaders around the world have embraced a whole lot of books that aren’t officially (or in some cases even remotely) “Christian”.  I see people reading countless books on leadership, team building, good communication and business practices. Seven Habits of Highly Effective People and Good To Great for sure come to mind.  As I was going through leadership stuff with my church, my pastor had me read The Starfish And The Spider. This was a book about decentralization of an organization.  All good books. But not exactly theologically profound.

Do you know why all these Christian leaders read all these books?  Because they are helpful.  Duh.

Running a church or ministry has a business and organizational piece to it.  We can wish it didn’t but it does.  And while theological training can help with that, it’s not usually enough.

Now there’s some people reading this right now thinking, “Hey wait a minute.  Isn’t this part of the problem with the Western Church today?  Too much business?”  Fair thought, but hear me out.

The key here is to not let these types of books become our Bible.  But there is nothing wrong with taking things created in the “secular” world, running them through the filter of the Bible and Church, and then using what is helpful.

Look, some things we read are unbiblical and go against what it teaches.  Those should always be discarded.  But others either line up within the principals scripture or don’t run opposed and are helpful with certain areas of life.

Take math – hard to learn algebra in the Bible. But Algebra isn’t anti-biblical.  And I’m hoping that the engineer that built that bridge did a whole lot more math than algebra.

The reason books like Good to Great are so good for us is that they challenge how we think about painting vision, engaging people, and creating movement.  We’d be foolish to ignore common truths just because they aren’t “Christian”. (Frankly many organizations do a better job of keeping their word, delivering on their promises and empowering people to act than the Church does, but that’s for some other blog).

Bottom line is this.  As a believer I have the option, if not duty, to run everything I see, read, think, philosophize, politicize, and feel through the context of that belief.  But I don’t have to shut off philosophy, politics, feelings, thought, books, math etc to do it.

But when it comes to dating, this is basically what the Church has done.

We’ve turned dating into some sort of over spiritualized drama. While often not helping women, we’ve almost completely failed our men.  We ask our men to ignore the dating culture we live in, rather than helping them navigate it.  We give them slogans instead of tools.  We tell them what they should do in marriage, but not how to get married.  We tell them what not to do on a date, but never how to get a date to begin with.  We tell them how to respect women, but not how to gain the respect of women.

A lot of the “secular” dating help does exactly the opposite, albeit often for secular goals.

But that is exactly my point. We don’t have to fear the “secular” dating help just because the goal of this or that author isn’t “biblical”.

I think we are afraid that if we give the guys these tools, they’ll use them for the wrong objectives.  If we learn from the “pick up artist”, for example, then men will just pick up women for sex.  But here’s the thing.  If the only reason a guy isn’t sleeping around is because he can’t “pickup” a woman, then that guy isn’t with us anyway.  He’s just “with us” because he has to be.  Friends, that is not the goal.

Here’s the question.  Would you rather have a bunch of “Christian” guys who don’t know how to approach a woman, get a date, or understand attraction so that they aren’t misusing that information, while our women continue to be un-attracted to them, or would you rather help them learn that knowledge knowing that many of them would then filter that through the lens that you say they believe in.  If we are so worried about the ladies, which do you think would be better for them?

Not only that, but isn’t it our job as Christian leaders (I am one) to learn this stuff, run it through our filters, and then share that knowledge?

Otherwise the “evil” “pickup artists” will just keep picking off our flock.

I’ll close with this.  I was speaking at a teen camp several years ago and working closely with what we call the “program team” whose job it was to plan and execute the events of the week.  They wanted to do a dance and of course this created a bit of a stir, honestly even in me.  One of them shared basically this, “We will control it.  We have a plan. Dancing has all sorts of contexts.  We want to take dancing back for the Lord.  We will control it. But we are going to dance.  Dancing is God’s.  We are reclaiming it this week so that kids will know that.”

A.Men.

They did it. . . all week. . . it was powerful

How much more so if we actually engage attraction and all that goes with it.

Christian leaders let me ask you this.  If a guy was starting a business, while you’d want him to use Biblical principles you’d also probably have other resources in mind.  If a guy was looking to get married – what would you offer him?

He’s Nice But. . .

It’s been a while as work (as in my real job) has sort of taken over of late.  But I wanted to get back to Stephen’s great questions.  You can see the first part of his three part question right here.

Today, I want to tackle Stephen’s second question, which actually is much easier and more clear than the first.  Stephen asks,

Everyone talks about women wanting guys who “lead”, who “aren’t pushovers,” who “aren’t nice guys,” etc. Question: what does this mean in the context of DATING. NOT MARRIAGE. Its fairly obvious what this means for married men. But when I’m asking a woman out for the first, second, or third time, the only things we’re going to disagree over, or have to decide together, are whether we’re going to Chipotle or Olive Garden. What if I really don’t give a darn? How am I supposed to “lead” while I’m casually dating a girl? I’m not an integral part of her life, I’m not her primary counselor, I’m not even likely to be *informed* about serious decisions that she has to make. How, given that we all spend the first 14 years of our lives being taught to be courteous and considerate – that is, NICE – am I supposed to demonstrate that I’m not “just a nice guy” in that context?

There is so much great stuff here.  I probably can’t do this in one post.  These questions are so crucial.  So let’s go.

Let’s talk about the first assumption here – that is that women want guys who lead, aren’t pushovers or “nice guys”.  The key word here really is the whole nice guy phrase. I like the pushover wording that Stephen offers.  I’ve written a whole post about not being nice, but here’s the short version.

Nice typically doesn’t work.  Now it’s important that when I say nice I don’t mean good.  I think you can be a good guy without being a “nice” guy.  I get that for many this is semantics.  So let’s clear it up a little.  Women aren’t typically attracted to a guy they can push around.  Basically the key here is don’t be a wuss.

This is important for several reasons but the main one early on is that it’s ingrained in women (in my opinion) that if you can’t stand up to them, then you won’t be able to stand up for them. Now that can get played out all sorts of ways – some reasonable, and some not so reasonable.  But women test this.  Not necessarily even consciously.  Some women test it the first time they meet you.  Others just figure it out a few dates in.  They may not even be able to name it, but they do it.

Beyond that, nice often means afraid.  What I mean is that a lot of the reason men are “nice” is that they are super worried about whether this person will like them.  Or, they think if I’m nice then she’ll like me.  I used to be this way. Going all the way back to when I was a kid, if I liked a girl, I was always super nice to her, and would never think of standing up to her.

When I became a Christian, then of course I had to not only be over considerate but I also had to guard her heart etc.  All of this is bogus, mostly counterproductive, puts the woman in authority of the relationship and makes you generally less attractive.  And if you are using being nice (buying gifts, chasing her everywhere, always doing what she wants) in order to get her to like you – how is that any different than any other game method.

Now I know there are people who say, “but we aren’t like the other people in the world. We should be different and treat women well.”  I’m  not saying treat women poorly.  The opposite of the nice, pushover guy is not the jerk.  You can be good, generous, kind, etc without being “nice”.  Frankly Jesus wasn’t nice.

Also what’s funny is that Stephen mentions how this is easier in marriage.  Sort of.  I think the leadership part is easier in principle.  But being the nice guy in the marriage can get you crushed.

Look, the last thing any guy wants to hear is, “He’s a really nice guy. . . but. . . ”  I was this guy a lot.  What’s funny is I’m not that nice.  Haha.

What does this look like.  First don’t be desperate.  Even from the first time you approach her it’s important to not convey that.  Have a plan and make decisions.  Don’t “need” her approval.  Don’t be her friend – be a guy she might want to date. Don’t just do everything she wants.  Act valuable.  (Read the linked posts)

This ties into the second part of the question.  Let’s say you get the girl to go out with you, and you start to date a little.  How do you lead, and not be a pushover early in the relationship.  Great, great question.  Man I screwed this up every way.  But I’ll need another post to get to that.