It’s been a while as work (as in my real job) has sort of taken over of late. But I wanted to get back to Stephen’s great questions. You can see the first part of his three part question right here.
Today, I want to tackle Stephen’s second question, which actually is much easier and more clear than the first. Stephen asks,
Everyone talks about women wanting guys who “lead”, who “aren’t pushovers,” who “aren’t nice guys,” etc. Question: what does this mean in the context of DATING. NOT MARRIAGE. Its fairly obvious what this means for married men. But when I’m asking a woman out for the first, second, or third time, the only things we’re going to disagree over, or have to decide together, are whether we’re going to Chipotle or Olive Garden. What if I really don’t give a darn? How am I supposed to “lead” while I’m casually dating a girl? I’m not an integral part of her life, I’m not her primary counselor, I’m not even likely to be *informed* about serious decisions that she has to make. How, given that we all spend the first 14 years of our lives being taught to be courteous and considerate – that is, NICE – am I supposed to demonstrate that I’m not “just a nice guy” in that context?
There is so much great stuff here. I probably can’t do this in one post. These questions are so crucial. So let’s go.
Let’s talk about the first assumption here – that is that women want guys who lead, aren’t pushovers or “nice guys”. The key word here really is the whole nice guy phrase. I like the pushover wording that Stephen offers. I’ve written a whole post about not being nice, but here’s the short version.
Nice typically doesn’t work. Now it’s important that when I say nice I don’t mean good. I think you can be a good guy without being a “nice” guy. I get that for many this is semantics. So let’s clear it up a little. Women aren’t typically attracted to a guy they can push around. Basically the key here is don’t be a wuss.
This is important for several reasons but the main one early on is that it’s ingrained in women (in my opinion) that if you can’t stand up to them, then you won’t be able to stand up for them. Now that can get played out all sorts of ways – some reasonable, and some not so reasonable. But women test this. Not necessarily even consciously. Some women test it the first time they meet you. Others just figure it out a few dates in. They may not even be able to name it, but they do it.
Beyond that, nice often means afraid. What I mean is that a lot of the reason men are “nice” is that they are super worried about whether this person will like them. Or, they think if I’m nice then she’ll like me. I used to be this way. Going all the way back to when I was a kid, if I liked a girl, I was always super nice to her, and would never think of standing up to her.
When I became a Christian, then of course I had to not only be over considerate but I also had to guard her heart etc. All of this is bogus, mostly counterproductive, puts the woman in authority of the relationship and makes you generally less attractive. And if you are using being nice (buying gifts, chasing her everywhere, always doing what she wants) in order to get her to like you – how is that any different than any other game method.
Now I know there are people who say, “but we aren’t like the other people in the world. We should be different and treat women well.” I’m not saying treat women poorly. The opposite of the nice, pushover guy is not the jerk. You can be good, generous, kind, etc without being “nice”. Frankly Jesus wasn’t nice.
Also what’s funny is that Stephen mentions how this is easier in marriage. Sort of. I think the leadership part is easier in principle. But being the nice guy in the marriage can get you crushed.
Look, the last thing any guy wants to hear is, “He’s a really nice guy. . . but. . . ” I was this guy a lot. What’s funny is I’m not that nice. Haha.
What does this look like. First don’t be desperate. Even from the first time you approach her it’s important to not convey that. Have a plan and make decisions. Don’t “need” her approval. Don’t be her friend – be a guy she might want to date. Don’t just do everything she wants. Act valuable. (Read the linked posts)
This ties into the second part of the question. Let’s say you get the girl to go out with you, and you start to date a little. How do you lead, and not be a pushover early in the relationship. Great, great question. Man I screwed this up every way. But I’ll need another post to get to that.