Tag Archives: attraction

To Kiss Or Not To Kiss

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My first kiss from anyone other than a relative came in first grade.  It was right after school and this girl named Lori came up on the playground, grabbed me and kissed me. . . ON THE LIPS.  It was scandalous but it wasn’t sex.

I want to write today about kissing.  I want to say up front that I’m not expecting everyone to agree with what I say here today and that’s ok.  I’ve been on every side of this in my 20 years of singleness.  I’ve messed it up on both sides. So let’s get real.

First a brief Justin kissing history.  In high school, I kissed exactly one person.  Not because I didn’t want to, or because I thought it wrong, but because I didn’t know how to go about it and I was not super popular with the ladies.  When I got to college that all changed and I kissed pretty much every girl I went out with, usually on the first date.  It was fun.  I didn’t fool around with them, and I didn’t have sex with any of them.  I don’t think it scarred anybody.

Then came my 20s and what I call the religious dating revolution of the 90’s.  This was led by I Kissed Dating Good Bye and other such books.  As I shared in an earlier post, I dated (courted, talked with, whatever she called it) a girl who went by a book with a chart.  No kissing allowed.  Now a lot of this made sense to me.  I’d seen a lot of people fall into temptation.  Then and now I get the argument.

I went ten years without kissing anyone.  TEN years.  

Now this started out as a religious “date right” decision.  Then there was a time when there just wasn’t many options and my head was buried in ministry.  But when I looked up after about five years I was in a new city, 31 years old, and had no confidence in this area of my life (not to mention no physical intimacy).  I had new reasons for not kissing.  In the back of my head was still the religious reasons, including “guarding the girl’s heart” (which mostly guarded her heart from liking me – ha) and frankly it had been a long time – could I deliver? I think it hurt me and helped keep me single.

Then I went on a date with a girl who pretty much did what Lori did in first grade – except in a car.  It was still scandalous, and it still wasn’t sex.

Sense then I’ve been on a lot of dates and God has walked me through a lot of stuff.  I’ve maybe kissed a couple of people I shouldn’t have and maybe even missed it when I should have.  But here’s what I’ve come to believe.

I think kissing is ok.

In fact I think if you haven’t kissed by the third or fourth date you are in trouble.  You are quickly approaching the no chemistry zone.  Now the exception might be if you have both talked about it and said you don’t want to – that’s totally fine – your call. But I’m saying I think kissing is fine, in fact I think it’s good.  I don’t think it’s sex or has to lead to it.

I’ve already talked about not having sex outside of marriage and I want to talk more later about having some healthy physical boundaries but when it comes to kissing I say yes please.

But. . . some important parameters.

First off, if you are not interested in the girl, then don’t kiss her.  For the love do I need to type that?  We’ve all had dates we just weren’t into. But here is where the third date thing comes into play.  If by the third date you don’t want to kiss her, then probably it’s time to not date her.  Sometimes we are passive about ending stuff.  More on that soon.

This brings us to point two.  This all assumes that the reason you are dating is to find someone to marry.  I’m not talking here about running around kissing different random people.  That is definitely not ok.  I’m talking about you are trying to find a spouse and you meet someone you like and it is progressing.  I think it is ok, good in fact, to kiss that person.

There are lots of traps that you can fall into, for example kissing all the time and never actually talking.  But there are traps with being so religious that you don’t have any physical contact.

So, what do you think?  When is it ok to kiss?  Is it good, bad, or does it even matter? What does a kiss mean to you?

What A Girl Wants – Attraction

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I once chased a girl 2000 miles.  Yup you read that right.  Here’s the super short version. There was this girl I really liked.  She was a strong Christian and I was totally taken with her.  We communicated some and then she moved 2000 miles away.  She cut off communication and I showed up in her town a month later.  She was of course shocked but she met me and we went to dinner.  She asked why I was there, and I said, “Because I want you to know that you are worth coming 2000 miles for”.  She was moved by that, and I went on to share more.

The next day we went to a great show and then had coffee.  She said she felt the need to respond, which I agreed would be good, Ha.  She said, “No one has ever come 2000 miles for me.  But I’m just not there.”

I’ve told this story in many contexts and I’m always amazed at how many women say, “If someone would do that for me, I would be in.”  You know what I tell them?  I say, “No, actually what you mean is if the guy who you want to come 2000 miles for you did it, you would be in.”

As I’ve talked about before, we as guys have about zero understanding of what is attractive to women.  We latch on to various misinterpretations and then try too hard to fulfill them.  We think if we are nice enough, or cool enough, or strong enough etc that we will be attractive.  We also hear women talk about what they want and we think we understand but we don’t.  This is especially true in Christian circles as I’ll come to in a second.

Gentlemen, time to pay attention.

Women say all sorts of things.  They might say for example that they want a guy who is: a true gentleman, a good communicator, in touch with his feelings, is strong, is passionate, is sensitive etc.  But that is not exactly what they mean.

David DeAngelo gets it right when he says,  “The REALITY is that when a woman says one of these “I want a guy who” statements, she actually has an IDEAL guy in mind, who ALSO happens to be a one of these things”

In other words she wants someone who she is attracted to who also has this or that quality. And guess what – it is no different for Christian women.  When a woman says, “I want a guy who is in love with Jesus” or “who will lead our family”, or “who has passion for the church”, what she means is “I want a guy who I’m attracted to who also has those qualities.”

Let that settle in men. If you don’t get this you will constantly be beating your head against the wall.  You’ll keep trying all the wrong things.  You’ll continue to be frustrated as you watch women choose to marry people who are not as strong in those areas and you’ll wonder what the heck just happened.  You’ll keep getting, “He’s a great guy. . . I just don’t know”

Look, you can be as solid a believer as you can be but if you don’t know how to pursue/interact/attract women then it probably isn’t going to matter.  

Now some guys get this and instead have a commitment problem (as promised more on this later), but there are a whole lot of us who struggle with this.  Typically no one, and certainly not the church, helps out.  The first step is realizing that if I’m in my late 20s or older and single not by choice or calling – chances are I might be misunderstanding attraction.

Just flip it around fellas.  Let’s be honest, when you think about the woman you want to end up with you think about certain qualities but it assumes you are attracted.  This is just reality.  So when you are filling out your online profile and say you want a “proverbs 31 woman” (which by the way if you are putting that in your profile that is a sign you definitely don’t get it) what you really mean is you want a woman who you are physically attracted to who also has those qualities.  You aren’t looking for just any woman who has those qualities.  Guess what, same thing for the ladies, only it doesn’t have as much to do with appearance.

The point is – attraction matters and if you don’t accept that as fact then you are going to miss it.  No one I know has married someone they weren’t attracted to. Being “christian” enough, or really any other “enoughs”, isn’t going to change that.  The good news is that even though you can’t make someone attracted to you, you can work on becoming more attractive.

Jesus Was Hot

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Have you ever thought about what was going through the mind of the woman in John 4 when she first saw Jesus kicking it at her well, in the middle of the day, when the “bad” people came to get water, alone, waiting for her?  I mean think about it.  She even lies to Him to tell Him she is available.  This is a woman who had five previous husbands and now was with a sixth.  She was obviously trying to find a man who would fill her life up (which is exactly what Jesus used to get into the water of life conversation).  I’d never thought about this until I read Beautiful Outlaw, but I think there almost had to be an element of attraction here.  This woman started out being attracted to Jesus.

Now Jesus obviously turned the tables on the woman and for sure had no interest in dating her but what I’m saying here is she was extremely intrigued by Him.  He was quite simply the most attractive person to ever live.

Why does this matter?  Because we can learn from it – especially guys, because we have no idea how attraction works.  We think, well I need to have a good job, or a lot of money, or we need to be successful or be really good looking, etc.

When I was in high school I really didn’t date much.  I was a late bloomer to put it mildly.  I never really had a girlfriend, and frankly I’m not sure I went on a date before my senior year.  I was constantly in the friend zone.  I thought it was because I was not good looking enough (which in middle school might have been true – ha – my parents should have had a haircut intervention).  I was tall and skinny and I just thought that was why.

I also thought that I just wasn’t good enough at stuff. When I looked at the guys who the girls all liked at my school, they were all really good athletes etc.  So I thought if I could become good enough at stuff then I would “get the girls”.

In college it felt like that happened. I was kind of good at everything.  I played on the college football team (well I was the kicker, but it put in me in an elite circle) and I was also determined to stay out of the friend zone.  And you know what, I always had dates and relationships, all through college.  I just figured, it was because I was successful.  Here’s the thing.  I was wrong.

The truth is I was attractive because I was confident, maybe even cocky, ok definitely cocky.  It didn’t matter whether it was sports, school, or ministry, I was large and in charge and my confidence grew and that equaled attraction.  But I didn’t get it.

There has never been anyone more confident than Jesus.  Think about this, Jesus had no money.  You can’t really call him successful by worldly standards.  He couldn’t even get 12 guys to do what he wanted.  He did not have the hot car or the winning record.  But Jesus was attractive because He knew exactly who He was.  He was comfortable in His own skin (if only I had a dollar for every online profile that a woman wrote that under “what I’m looking for”).  Because Jesus knew who He was, He was able to love right, fight for the right stuff, laugh and cry at the right time, the whole nine yards.  Jesus was “that guy”.  It’s part of the reason the Pharisees and company were so pissed.  They were so try hard, and He was so effortless.

Here’s the beauty of this.  If we have Jesus we have the opportunity to have His confidence.  If our identity is in Him, then we are free to become who we are supposed to be.  If we engage Him we can heal from our wounds, work on our sin and weaknesses, and be able to love others the right way.  And there is nothing, and I mean nothing, hotter than that.

Are You Electable?

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So a few years ago after I realized that I was the problem and that I had basically no understanding of how female attraction worked – and I was screwing it up ten other ways, I called a mentor friend of mine and said, “Hey I’ve got big problems here.”  He said, “Well fly out here and we’ll fix it.”  Now I’ll admit I was a little fearful of this trip but hey I was desperate and I knew I was lost, so I booked the flight.

Basically we had an all day counseling session.  I left with a lot of truths.  But here was the overall premise.  My friend said, “Look, you are a strong guy, and you’ve got a lot going for you.  You’d make a great husband, everyone agrees with that.  But you know what, there are a lot of people who would make a great President.  The problem is most of them can’t get elected.”

I laughed, and cringed.  It was an incredible insight.  I think this is a huge problem for many of us single folks who feel like we are called to marriage.  We want to be married.  We want to have the “Christian” marriage that everyone keeps talking about, even though we understand that it will take work and sacrifice – we still desire it and think we are made for it.  And the truth is many of us would make a great spouse – while of course always being a work in progress. The problem isn’t do we want to be married or would we be a good marriage partner.  The problem is we don’t know how to get married – we can’t get elected.

The church community, including us singles, needs to step up in this area. We can talk all day about marriage and all the things not to do as a single person.  And I want to re-emphasize that those things are indeed important.  But I’m not sure that we do a lot to actually help people get married.

One time a pastor at our church was giving the one sermon on singleness I’ve heard him preach (sorry can’t help it).  He actually was doing really well.  Then he dropped this line, “Now some of you are just awkward (read unelectable).  That’s ok, you just need to work on it.  If you don’t know where you’re awkward come find me and I’ll tell you.”  Now he actually had a great point that most pastors are afraid to say, but he wasn’t going to personally follow up with 1000 single people.

But in community we actually could work on this.  And as single people we need to have the humility and frankly the bravery to work on this.  We need to ask questions like, How do I come off to the opposite sex?, What type of people do I date and why?, Am I pursuable or do I have a huge wall up?, Am I afraid to commit?, What kind of first impression do I make?, Why am I so nervous to approach a girl I’m interested in?, and many more.  We need to evaluate ourselves as well as ask others and let them speak into this. This is not a beat ourselves up moment. It’s a real talk moment.

The thing is there are actually honest answers to these questions.  And the best part is you can change them.  You really can.  But if you don’t face them then you probably won’t.  By the way all of this goes way beyond dating.  The root answers to these questions come from our fears, sins, and woundedness, none of which come from God.  They are affecting our lives in all sorts of ways.  Jesus wants to grow and heal us from them, but we have to dive in with Him and His community.

So here is the question – Are you electable?

I Wanted To Like You

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Several years ago I really liked this girl.  She was beautiful, successful, smart, fun, liked Jesus – whole 9 yards.  I had met her at a conference I was speaking at but she lived a few states away.  We talked and I got her number, called her and oddly enough had a trip planned to her state already – so I asked her if while I was there if we could go out.  She said yes and we had a great time.  We kept talking on the phone and I said I wanted to see her again if she would like to.  She said she would like that and we set up another time for me to come visit her.  Now let me ask you a question – did she at least kind of like me? I’m thinking yes.  So I should just go make it happen right? But I didn’t know how.

I went down and we had an ok time but there was no spark.  I was in my head the whole time.  To be honest I didn’t get that she could like me.  I mean what did I have to offer her – she made more money than me, lived in a better place, had a great family – all of it.  When she dropped me off at the airport her eyes said it all.  Not that it kept me from calling her more and trying to get her to like me etc.

One day as we were talking on the phone (she was pretty gracious to talk to me at this point) she literally said, “I wanted to like you – but I just didn’t”.  She went on to say attraction just happens and she didn’t feel it.

It was a turning point in my life and here’s why.  I finally realized that I was the problem. For so long, really going all the way back to high school, I had always thought that it was my looks, or the money I made, or the job I had, or whatever that made me unattractive to certain girls I liked.  But this girl messed all that up.  She had everything, knew all that about me and still “wanted to like me”.  None of that had mattered.  Not my looks, money etc.  None of it. It was something else.

I always just thought, “I can’t ever get the girl that I really like”.  This happens all the time. When it counts, we guys choke.  When we as guys really like a girl we often fall into this weird state where we quit being ourselves, quit leading, and start being a wuss.  We are afraid and we go into impress her mode, or get her to like me mode.  This of course does just the opposite. Women end up perplexed by it as well. “I wanted to like him, he was nice (good, loved Jesus etc) but I just didn’t feel it.”

One of the reasons that we are single is that men don’t understand female attraction at all. We misinterpret all sorts of things growing up and we end up lost in this area. We have almost no guidance here. To be honest, I think in Christian circles this is even more confusing.  We are just clueless.  Even most guys who attract women don’t realize why – or at least not the real reasons.

Female attraction does not work the same way that male attraction does.  This is actually good news for us guys, but only if we can get some sort of handle on it.   Unless we do, we are going to keep failing, sometimes even if we get married, because we will keep thinking the wrong way and doing the wrong things.

Learning about marriage is important and many church communities, as well as books, do a great job of teaching on this.  But it isn’t much good if we don’t help guys figure out how to get married.  Much, much more to come on this.

Guys, how are you around women you like? Ladies, have you ever had a guy you wanted to like but didn’t?

North Oak Trafficway and The Church of the Hot Chick

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I went to high school in a small town about 30 minutes north of K.C.  There wasn’t a lot to do there so when my friends and I got our licenses we would cruise down to North KC. We would hit the mall or whatever but eventually, almost without fail, we would cruise North Oak Trafficway.  Now the reason we did this is two fold, first we were bored but also it was to see who else (i.e. girls) were also cruising around.  We’d pull up next to a car of girls and then they’d drive forward and we’d cruise by and so on.  Rarely did we actually talk to them, just kind of window shopped.  We’d do the same thing by stopping at places like Sonic where there was a girl on skates that we could look at  – again not really to do anything.

We were kind of like the dog that chases cars.  Great idea, really attracted to the car, but no idea what to do if we actually caught it – and we’d probably just get run over anyway.

The amazing thing is this same thing happens in our church communities all the time. Especially in what I call the Church of the Hot Chick.  These are the churches where all the “hot” young single and married people in town hang out.  My church is one of these.  Now what happens is that we guys know that available women go there and then because more guys go there, even more women go there etc.  The problem is that for the most part all we do is look at each other.  People literally drive 30-40 minutes to come to church so that they can sit in the same room with the Christian “Hot Chick”.  But they don’t do anything about it.

I’ve had this conversation with a few different women.  I asked one twenty something friend of mine who I think is really attractive, “So is it kind of like a meat market for you at our church?  I mean do guys always ask for your number and stuff at church?”  She just stared at me and said, “No because it’s not like any guy is going to actually do anything about it.” I had the exact same conversation with a woman I went on a date with who attends one of the other “hot person” churches in town and she said the exact same thing. She said, “I’ll be sitting there in Church with no one next to me and no one ever sits next to me or says hi.”

Why is this?  Now maybe part of it is not wanting to “hit on” anyone at church, which is fair. But the reality is that most guys are scared.  We have grown up knowing how to look but not ever really being taught how to approach, and certainly not how to talk to, women.  It’s like we are still cruising the road – except now it’s sit in the back so you can see them, watch them during the communion line, or stand in the foyer in the back and hope for a reason to talk to them.  It’s the exact same thing, except now you are 25, 30, or 35 years old. Hows that working out?

Look I’m not suggesting that you go and get numbers at church. I’m not saying we should see a church service as a singles bar, and for heaven’s sake I’m not suggesting you should ask out a new girl from church every week.  I know there are guys that do that (I’ll get to you all later) but what I am saying is that we need to learn to engage the opposite sex in a normal, non threatening way.  And if we can’t learn that in our church community then where exactly can we?